I think your list look’s really good. My only concern would be your usage or overusage of blunderbusses as IMO they can be very effective or not effective at all.
Against a horde army such as Skaven or Orcs & Gobs they will do wonders, however against an army with larger models (Ogres) or one that intends to stand and shoot from a distance such Elves or Dwarfs you might find your spending all of your time running around the board trying to catch them.
Instead you might want to drop a unit or 2 and invest in increasing your warriors unit up to 25 models and introduce some hobgoblin foot troops as cannon fodder…:hat off
It’s similar to my list of 2009… but there are 2 things that I don’t like to much…
1-absence of BSB. Iwth Ld 10 he coould help a lot. you can give it to your hero and leave sorcerer lord to be the general and still have LD 10
2-caliche of darknes is usefull if you have more pover stone. Without them I suggest you to drop it with staff of sorcery to have more magic protection.
lionheart: yes I have thought of this before, in fact I have only once ever fielded an army with so many blunderbuss’, it performed wonderfully but against ogres it could be a problem. on the other hand hardly anybody brings ogres to tournaments now a days.(with my luck Ill be facing one now)
alan the evil: yeah I also would really like to bring a bsb the only problem I have with it is, my hero would no longer be able to carry a great weapon, and I would really like him to be a formidable foe if I had to fight against something nasty. also if I pick lore of shadows with all of the magic I have, ill always have the option of using steed of shadows and catapult my fighty character at a lone wizard or something of the sort. I think the chalice can still be very useful especially if I am fighting against someone with equal or less wizards, hopefully crippling their magic defense. the staff of sorcery used to be in this list but I took it out when I added the sorcerer lord, hoping that his presence is sufficient enough to not need the staff any longer.
if there are any things I am willing to bargain with it would probably be trading the death rocket for a bolt thrower and then using the remaining 50 pts to play with. 50 points can get me 4 dwarfs with great weapons or 5 without, a staff of sorcery or more hobgoblin fodder.
if the BSB problem is only a matter of offensive power you can put a BC BSB with sword of might… so, instead of 3 attacks with S6 you gonna have 4 MAGIC attacks S5 (enough to be damagefull) and he can also charge of 16" out your unity without hope in a spell to charge (if you want to kill lonely wizard, bows on wolf riders are better) and when he is on charge he has +1 on combat result because of BSB… you can easily kill war machines, little units of bowmen/crossbowmen or not-to-big cavalries in last turn. And he has T5 to (more resistent and armour of gazrack…
you need 60 point for this…
you can drop one unit of BB and use the remaining points increasing the warrior units (3 ranks must not to decrease easily and number is important vs scaring or terryfing units!!), but PLEASE don’t drop the rocket!! (…unless you’re not good to guess ranges)
I used the army today, I got a minor loss. I was playing against tomb kings. I got to fire the earthshaker and deathrocket about 3 times each before they were taken out. the earthshaker misfired and blew itself up and the death rocket crew oddly failed a fear test and fled from a single base of tomb swarms. my bull centaurs got charged by some carrion and failed a fear test and then later rallied and again failed a fear test and then fled off the table without doing anything at all the entire game. the army that I faced was a little “ogre like” so… note taken ross lionheart ;P. the army had only one block of infantry and 2 units of chariots, 2 small units of light cav, among other things. the chariots were pretty hard to hurt with blunderbuss’s. although I did get a huge hit with BB on his infantry block and put a wound on his general. this bb shot felt pretty much game changing and resulted in my unit of cd’s with great weapons supported by my cd hero defeating his infantry block and tomb king in about 1.5 turns. we captured that banner and then on the last turn that unit got charged by a chariot unit and got wiped out, causing me to lose the captured banner as well as my own. during the 5th turn one of my cd units got smashed in a chariot sandwhich.
my chalice of darkness was awesome at ruining his magic defense, unfortunately I didn’t get pit of shades which is a spell I really wanted. I went the whole game without losing a single wizard.
all in all it was a good game, the last round is where I lost the game, I was winning until then. I really wish I got to pass those early leadership tests. I think I need to add a few units of cheap redirector hobbgobbos.
I played another game yesterday, this time it was against wood elves. my opponents list had 5 or six units of 5 glade riders with bows he had a level one scroll caddy, 2 war eagles, a unit of dryads, 2 units of 5 wild riders and 3 more characters one was on foot and was very very fast, another was mounted and the last one was a noble riding a terrifying dragon. well Unfortunately he got the first turn and advanced with everything so he could be in range for his bows. my deployment was huddled around a hill, his shooting resulted in about 4 cd deaths. next turn I charged with my HGWR unit at his wild riders and killed 4 of them but the remaining one stood fast., my magic phase was ok killing 4 elves and causing a unit to panic, I chose all lore of fire by the way. my chalice was pretty cool allowing almost anything I wanted to be cast. nearly all of my troops advanced my death rocket missed the dragon and my earthshaker misfired and wouldnt be shooting til turn 3. my bolt throwers hit and managed to do 3 wounds to the dragon, at this point I wished I had my other 2 to finish it off. meanwhile my Level 4 sorc was sitting in a unit of Blunderbuss. the next turn he charged with his dragon at my sorc lord, it was a really long charge so I chose flee, they ended up about 5 inches in front of the dragon, then his remaining stuff advanced my hgwr got charged by the dryads. my bull centaurs also got charged by his wild riders, my BCs didnt fight very good and lost the combat and apparently wild riders cause fear when they charge so I was defeated by a fear causer and fled, the hgwrs fled too but were caught. then his glade riders stayed really far away from me to stay out of bb range and had a much more successful shooting phase and the same time. so my next turn began, my turn 2, and a unit of bb with the sorc with the chalice fled off the table and then my sorc lord decided not to rally and also fled off the table with another unit of bb, but my centaurs rallied all 2 of them and at that point me and my opponent looked at the table and it was pretty obvious I couldnt recover so he asked me " so do you want to continue this bloodbath?" I looked at my army which had already lost more than 1000 points and we decided to end the game.
he gave me some advice to put my sorc lord in the unit with the hero and great weapons and use it as a bunker that way I couldve done the whole black gem thing and I wouldn’t have lost my sorc lord so easily.
Your opponent told you the obvious. If you placed the sorcer lord in a big, mean chaos dwarf u nit he wuld never charged it with the dragon for two reasons:
1) even for a Dragon lord is not easy to breack torough a full ranked unit of chaos dwarfs with warbanner.
2) you have the black gem! Freeze him and he could not hurt you. He will end loosing the combat by 3 ranks+banner+warbanner+outnumber= 6 Ld10-6= an lef lord testing with 4! He should be damn lucky to stay!
If needed next turn you shall have some heavy hammer to flank him (black orcs, bull centaurs are perfect), add some damage and get another +1 for flank charge…
Personally I hate losing any game but I am a beleiver that you learn more from your failures than you do from your victories.
In regards to your army list I agree with your choice to change the death rocket for 2 bolt throwers. The death rocket can be very unpredictable at times so It doesent always get your points back. At 30 points each the bolt throwers will cut through ranks and take down monsters with multi wounds :)
If I had the choice I'd upgrade both of your CD warrior units up to 24 each with FCMD as they won't win the combat via kills but instead through CC resolution. Whilst you hold up the unit with your CD Warriors hit your enemy in the flank or the rear with your hobgoblins.
I also feel that it is very important to have a character leading your unit that has the ability to to asssist with your CC, a hero/BSB for example with a great weapon should do the trick.
I'd consider taking away the biting blade from your sorcerer lord and giving him a powerstone instead. I don't think your going to be able to do much with one S5 attack :hat off
Your opponent told you the obvious. If you placed the sorcer lord in a big, mean chaos dwarf u nit he wuld never charged it with the dragon for two reasons:
1) even for a Dragon lord is not easy to breack torough a full ranked unit of chaos dwarfs with warbanner.
2) you have the black gem! Freeze him and he could not hurt you. He will end loosing the combat by 3 ranks+banner+warbanner+outnumber= 6 Ld10-6= an lef lord testing with 4! He should be damn lucky to stay!
If needed next turn you shall have some heavy hammer to flank him (black orcs, bull centaurs are perfect), add some damage and get another +1 for flank charge....
Bassman
yeah those are some good points, I should of thought of that before. he also told me since the gem will only work for one turn I should use my champ to challenge until help can arrive. well then.... the turn the dragon charges I should challenge with my champ then the next turn, my turn, I could lay my wolf riders in a big line behind the dragon so that if it flees, I could be there to catch it. then activate the gem so my unit will win in combat with +7. now that sounds like a plan!
I'd consider taking away the biting blade from your sorcerer lord and giving him a powerstone instead. I don't think your going to be able to do much with one S5 attack :hat off
ross_lionheart
actually its S4 with -1 armor save and only costs 10 pts. Its only there so I have more than one guy with magic attacks, but it is still only one attack Ill consider getting rid of it for a power stone...
I think you should take out a unit BB’s and use the points for hobgoblin archers, also the dwarf unit’s GW’s could be used for archers. They would have been really nice to have especially against WE.
Sorcerer Lord @ 285p black gem of gnar, power stone lvl4
Chaos Dwarf Hero BSB @ 135p armour of ghazrakh sword of might
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer @ 150p Staff of Sorcerylvl 2
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer @ 150p 2 x dispel scrolls lvl2
720p
Core
23 x Chaos Dwarf warrior @262p FC warbanner
19 x Chaos Dwarf warrior @201p FC
14 x CD w/ Blunderbuss @144p 14 x CD w/ Blunderbuss @144p
23 x Hobgoblin @46p 10 x Hobgoblin Wolf Rider @140p mus, light armor shield 10 x Hobgoblin archers @50p 10 x Hobgoblin archers @50p
1037p
Special 2 x Bolt Thrower @60p 2 x Bolt Thrower @60p
qwe50: I just might use that list probably filling the rest with … sneaky gits or naked hobgobbos… although im not too sure about getting rid of the chalice as Im growing quite fond of it.
well I was using it today and I got massacred, playing against dark elves, his hydra hit my bunker unit and ate my bsb and then my sorc lord he ended up laying charges all over me by his turn 2 but it was all just redirectors and then by turn 4 he got a whole bunch of important charges and killed off most of my army. my earthshaker killed his generals chariot and then got charged on turn 2…
im thinking about putting in some units of orc big uns or black orcs for flanking punch… oh and possibly going back to using the great taurus…
well I was using it today and I got massacred, playing against dark elves, his hydra hit my bunker unit and ate my bsb and then my sorc lord he ended up laying charges all over me by his turn 2 but it was all just redirectors and then by turn 4 he got a whole bunch of important charges and killed off most of my army. my earthshaker killed his generals chariot and then got charged on turn 2...
im thinking about putting in some units of orc big uns or black orcs for flanking punch.. oh and possibly going back to using the great taurus...
Against a hydra or any other type of monster, I've always found it a good idea to set a trap by using a unit of bait to lure your opponent in. I normally place a unit of hobgoblins within charge range of the monster and behind them I use a harder unit. The distance between the bait and the elite unit depends upon what the charge range is. You don't want the monster being able to catch your bait and landing the charge on you.
Now when the monster becomes within charge range take the option to flee. By doing so you will leave it stranded and during your turn you will be able to strike it hard with one of your harder units such as your BC.
But in regards to your usage of the GT, I have to agree it will give your army more mobility, you just need to make sure that your lord is not scured off him mout :hat off
I think Im finally giving up on this magic based army, I cant seem to get a win with it after about 7 games. I get massacred every time. probably going to switch to Great Taurus again…
The lists that you have been using are very good if you like the heavy magic, i think swapping out the Sorcerer Lord for a lord on Great Taurus is the way forward with a hard hitting lord added to this force i think you will be winning allot but it you want to give the magic list ago again try putting your Sorcerer lord on a Lammasu for a bigger punch
ok changed my character choices and a few minor changes to even out the points
CD Lord on great taurus 450 obsidian blade and armour of ghazrakh
Chaos Dwarf Hero BSB 130 armour of the furnace
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lvl 1 2 scrolls 115
Core
24 x Chaos Dwarf warrior @271 FC warbanner
20 x Chaos Dwarf warrior @210p FC
14 x CD w/ Blunderbuss @168p 14 x CD w/ Blunderbuss @168p
25 hobgobbos with light armor and shield or 10 orc biguns with light armour and shield, or maybe even 20 sneaky gits they are all 100 pts
11 naked hobgobbos 10 naked hobgobbos 10 naked hobgobbos 10 x Hobgoblin Wolf Rider mus, light armor shield bows 10 x Hobgoblin archers @50p
Special 2 x Bolt Thrower @60p 2 x Bolt Thrower @60p
120p
Rare Earthshaker @110p 6 Bull Centaurs @120p
2250
so this is how I changed the list after getting rid of the Sorc lord and switching out the remaining characters. what do you guys think is better the 25 armoured hobgobbos or the 10 orc big’uns? I like the biguns because they can dish out higher Strength attacks, but the hobgobbos are good for static combat res… I’m also considering using 20 sneaky gits since some enemy units are more than capable at wiping out 5 armoured troops in combat, sneaky gits can get the most out of attacking back especially If I keep a wide frontage.
CD Lord on great taurus 450 obsidian blade and armour of ghazrakh
Chaos Dwarf Hero shield great weapon 111 armour of the furnace
Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Lvl 1 2 scrolls 115
Core
24 x Chaos Dwarf warrior @271 FC warbanner
20 x Chaos Dwarf warrior @210p FC
14 x CD w/ Blunderbuss @168p 14 x CD w/ Blunderbuss @168p
10 naked hobgobbos 10 naked hobgobbos 10 naked hobgobbos 10 x Hobgoblin Wolf Rider mus, light armor shield bows 10 x Hobgoblin archers @50p
Special 2 x Bolt Thrower @60p 2 x Bolt Thrower @60p 21 sneaky gits 105pts
Rare Earthshaker @110p 6 Bull Centaurs, heavy armour champion @135p
2249
still undecided about the extra 100 pts but Im beginning to really like sneaky git idea though
qwe50: I do really like the bc lord but Im trying to incorporate the GT for superior maneuverability, I do agree that the BC lord would be able to use the obsidian blade better since he has higher Strength attacks
but it you want to give the magic list ago again try putting your Sorcerer lord on a Lammasu for a bigger punch