[Archive] Now there just taking the mick

Godbob and his jolly rogers:

In WD347 (WoC) it’s says that dragon ogre are one of the oldest living creatures in the WH world.

Now thats very pusable in till you think ogre are the 2 youngest race in the Wh world.

How could the youngest and the oldest race be mixed together?

Viskar Zhragoth:

well, there was an ogre name trg, and a dragon named shirley.

I think it just means that most of the older individuals of the older races have died…heck even Lord Kroak is “dead”. But the Dragon Ogres have just been alive longer becuase they aren’t really dying off (except in battle) and I’d imagine that not too many are being born.

grunts:

haha, i’m totally confused by that myself.  I was just reading the WoC book and it says they are part ogre part dragon, but it says they lived on the world before the coming of the old ones…which made the ogres…I’m so confused :~

Godbob and his jolly rogers:

well, there was an ogre name trg, and a dragon named shirley.

I think it just means that most of the older individuals of the older races have died....heck even Lord Kroak is "dead". But the Dragon Ogres have just been alive longer becuase they aren't really dying off (except in battle) and I'd imagine that not too many are being born.

Viskar Zhragoth
I was trying to say that how could it be one of the oldest creatures when one of it's halfs was created hundreds of years after?

snowblizz:

well, there was an ogre name trg, and a dragon named shirley.

I think it just means that most of the older individuals of the older races have died....heck even Lord Kroak is "dead". But the Dragon Ogres have just been alive longer becuase they aren't really dying off (except in battle) and I'd imagine that not too many are being born.

Viskar Zhragoth
I was trying to say that how could it be one of the oldest creatures when one of it's halfs was created hundreds of years after?


Godbob and his jolly rogers
Yeah, um, you know Dragon Ogres aren't Ogres+Dragon in the way Beastmen are men+goats. There's nothing to say that, other than that they have the upper body of an ogre. This could be artistic license, a misconception of those who see them or the Old Ones just stole the blueprints when then tried creating a Chaos proof race.

Of course this is all retconning after Ogres turn out to be a "young" race still created by old ones put them just before HE history anyway so umm yeah... like several thousand years older than Morathi and even the current oldest Slann. Come to think of it those Old Ones must have made a rush job of the halfling/ogres because there's not that much of time between collapsing polar portals and deamons invading the world and elven lands (the beginnings of recorded history).

grunts:

In the shaggoth fluff it states that when the Shaggoths are roused by a storm, the ones going into battle may be 6000 years old. Does anyone know where this sits in the timeline?

Kera foehunter:

it the warhamer chicken vs the egg thing

problem solved

AGPO:

Egg. If your sensible and don’t go with the “therewas some clay and some halitosis… Then there was this guy and he had this GIANT boat…” series of events, then it’s a fairly obvious question. At some point there eveolved a creature that reproduced by laying eggs. Over countless generations various evolutionary stages eventually resulted in the hatching of creatures we call chickens.

As regards dragon ogres, well we know the old ones borrowed and ‘improved’ the native life on the Warhammer World. Bearing in mind the resistance of the Dragon Ogres to mutation - I haven’t seen a mutated Shaagoth and they’ve been serving chaos for thousands of years - its reasonable to assume that the old ones would have taken them as their base

Tarrakk Blackhand:

Typo?

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

snowblizz:

In the shaggoth fluff it states that when the Shaggoths are roused by a storm, the ones going into battle may be 6000 years old.  Does anyone know where this sits in the timeline?

grunts
Imperial Calender:
current: 2525 (ish, they keep changing their minds)
Sigmar: 0
First Chaos Incursion really kicks in with HE being affected: ca -4500
Polar gate start to collapse: ca -5600 (from the LZM book)
Work gets under way to make/shape the races: -10.000 (from the LZM book)
Old Ones arrive: -15.000 (from the LZM book)

So it would be around the time that Chaos first comes into the world. Though Dragon Ogres can be much older, such as Kholek Suneater and the elder of the race, Krakanrok. As Dragons and supposedly Dragon Ogres were here before the Old Ones some of them must be truly ancient.
But the Shaggoths seen most often are the younger, lesser creatures, not the really ancient ones.

Dragon Ogres could well belong to the "existing races deemed unfit by the Old Ones", no wonder they side with Chaos.

In conclusion I would say the word "ogre" in Dragon Ogre is about as improper as "chaos" is in Chaos Dwarfs.

slev:

When the Old Slaân turned up, the Dragons where already there, along with the raes who would become the Lizardmen when Stillman re-wrote everything, and the Great Enchanter, who witnessed their arrival. Note that, Drachenfels aside, all the races of old where reptillian.

Earlier timelines had the arival as circa -10,000 IC.

cornixt:

The “ogre” part of dragon ogre is probably like the “bear” part of koala bear or panda bear.

two_heads_talking:

It’s pretty obvious… Dragon Ogres have nothing to do with ogres as far as relationship is concerned. In other words Dragon Ogre is just a name but doesn’t mean it’s half ogre and half dragon. I’d say it was called that because it did look like half dragon/half ogre, but that in reality it’s a creature of it’s own chaotic designs…

Rather than call them dragon ogres, the proper name shaggoth should be used and then it’s all clear.

zorn sabretooth:

THT hit the nail one the head

grunts:

Rather than call them dragon ogres, the proper name shaggoth should be used and then it's all clear.

two_heads_talking
Yeah, I like the sound of that.

wallacer:

Do Dragon Ogres actually refer to themselves as “Dragon Ogres” or is that just a name that the younger races gave to them because their upper halves look sort of Ogre-like?

grunts:

Do Dragon Ogres actually refer to themselves as "Dragon Ogres" or is that just a name that the younger races gave to them because their upper halves look sort of Ogre-like?

wallacer
I read through the dragon ogre fluff in my WoC book and it doesn't make any mention of what they call themselves. The Shaggoth fluff gives a few of the other names they are known by (Shantaks, and a couple others I can't remember off hand). The fluff makes mention of them as "creatures of legend" on several occasions, so it seems like they're trying to play them up as mythical creatures. When I get home I'll post the fluff here verbatim (unless theres copyright issues? admins, yes/no?)

Slavelord:

With the ‘where do they come in the warhammer timeline’, they were things around BEFORE the old ones, they just changed things to suit themselves. Dragons, it is said, did not like the heat as the world was moved closer to the sun (says that in the HE book me thinks…). Dragon ogres were their enemies (I gather).

Kera foehunter:

lol don’t you rememer wallacer !!you where the 3 oldest monster !!

snowblizz:

Dragons, it is said, did not like the heat as the world was moved closer to the sun (says that in the HE book me thinks...). Dragon ogres were their enemies (I gather).

Slavelord
I don't remember that from my HE book...
Considering most Dragons live in Caledor around the plentiful volcanoes there that doesn't strike me as logical. They do nto seem to mind warmth.
Besides Dragons were plentiful still in the days of the Chaos Incursion long after they changed the orbit. It was only after the HE created the vortex to siphon off magic from the world that Dragons have become rarer.