[Archive] Odd question but

Sigose:

Why isn’t there many female models in the fantasy and 40k? I know there is lore for them and they are in certain armys so why don’t we see alot of the models? :~

~Sigose

Thommy H:

Well, on the whole, Games Workshop’s sculptors appear to be pretty awful at scuplting female models.

torn:

i think its much to do with the fact that many females dont make a big impression on the front line in wars, both historically and in modern armies where women still cant serve in ‘combat’ units, its just adding realism.

then again there is sisters of battle . . .

Thommy H:

then again there is sisters of battle . . .
Who all look like transvestites anyway.

Not that I have anything against transvestites, but it strikes me as something the Imperial Cult would be probably dissaprove of, on the whole.

Pyro Stick:

Quite a lot of Eldar and Dark Eldar look female. Also a lot of fantasy Elves are female. Or they look female anyway

Hammerhand:

Why isn't there many female models in the fantasy and 40k? I know there is lore for them and they are in certain armys so why don't we see alot of the models? :~

~Sigose

Sigose
OK, off the top of my head

Warhammer
Witch elves, dark elf warriors have women in, Dark elf sorceress on pegasus (formerly the queen morathi model), Dark Elf sorceress, some wood elves, Ariel of the wood elves, daemonnettes, Keeper of secrets, brettonian damsels, Morgianna le fay - the fay enchantress, High elf queen of avelorn, Issabella von carstein, lahmian vampire counts, that belladonna chick from DoW, they released a female orc at one point for a ltd ed, the dwarf maiden in the grudge of drong, (don't forget, dwarf ladies have beards and are flat chested), High Queen Kalida Nefera from tomb kings, I'm sure some of the skeletons were female once! reference has been made to amazonians, and they have a blood bowl team. Aren't lizardmen both? not sure. There was a special edition female ogre, sisters of sigmar in mordheim and their special character

40K
sisters of battle, death cult assassins, howling banshees, eldar guardians have women, Jain Zar, calidus assassin, I'm pretty sure there's a female 40k inquisitor, keeper of secrets (look at the forge world model), daemonettes, there are female dark elar wyches, and probably dark eldar warrior-esses (I'm not sure), Tank Girl and another one in the last chancers. Commander Shadowsun of the Tau empire. Mad D Necrons must count as it's impossible for men to tell why they do things!!

That's quite a few women, and I'm sure there will be more if you look into it. How many do you want?? :o

Hammerhand:

EDIT - Sorry, posted that before I was finished!!

Why isn’t there many female models in the fantasy and 40k? I know there is lore for them and they are in certain armys so why don’t we see alot of the models? :~

~Sigose

Sigose
OK, off the top of my head

Warhammer

Witch elves, dark elf warriors have women in, Dark elf sorceress on pegasus (formerly the queen morathi model),��Dark Elf sorceress, some wood elves, Ariel of the wood elves, daemonnettes, Keeper of secrets, brettonian damsels, Morgianna le fay - the fay enchantress, High elf queen of avelorn, Issabella von carstein, lahmian vampire counts, that belladonna chick from DoW, they released a female orc at one point for a ltd ed, the dwarf maiden in the grudge of drong, (don’t forget, dwarf ladies have beards and are flat chested), High Queen Kalida Nefera from tomb kings, I’m sure some of the skeletons were female once! reference has been made to amazonians, and they have a blood bowl team.��Aren’t lizardmen both? not sure. There was a special edition female ogre, sisters of sigmar in mordheim and their special character

40K

sisters of battle, death cult assassins, howling banshees, eldar guardians have women, Jain Zar, calidus assassin, I’m pretty sure there’s a female 40k inquisitor, keeper of secrets (look at the forge world model), daemonettes, there are female dark elar wyches, and probably dark eldar warrior-esses (I’m not sure), Tank Girl and another one in the last chancers. Commander Shadowsun of the Tau empire. Mad Donna Ulanti from Necromunda & House Escher, Necrons must count as it’s impossible for men to tell why they do things!!

That’s quite a few women, and I’m sure there will be more if you look into it.��How many do you want?? :o



Hammerhand

Thommy H:

That's quite a few women, and I'm sure there will be more if you look into it. How many do you want??
Well, I'm no expert, but I understand that there's a roughly 50/50 split of men and women in the real world ;)

I mean, it's fine for Space Marines and Bretonnians, but there's no excuse for the eldar and elf model ranges not having an even split and, indeed, part of the fluff for the Imperial Guard states that they recruit as many women as men. "Female Cadians" is the dream of a number of players out there who like their models to match their fluff.

The fact remains that GW tend not to be too good at doing female models. The elves are androgynous enough that making them female isn't really that hard - having seen the wood elf glade guard sprues up close, it really is hard to tell which torso belongs to which gender and the heads are totally interchangable.

Dracomancer:

I remember reading about someone over on Warseer (if memory recalls it was Spikedog, although I could be wrong) who had bought female cadian torsos and heads from another company (who makes that sorta thing) to use in an IG army, if you check the tale of 40k painters you will see who it was…

Hammerhand:

That's quite a few women, and I'm sure there will be more if you look into it.��How many do you want??
Well, I'm no expert, but I understand that there's a roughly 50/50 split of men and women in the real world ;)

I mean, it's fine for Space Marines and Bretonnians, but there's no excuse for the eldar and elf model ranges not having an even split and, indeed, part of the fluff for the Imperial Guard states that they recruit as many women as men. "Female Cadians" is the dream of a number of players out there who like their models to match their fluff.

The fact remains that GW tend not to be too good at doing female models. The elves are androgynous enough that making them female isn't really that hard - having seen the wood elf glade guard sprues up close, it really is hard to tell which torso belongs to which gender and the heads are totally interchangable.


Thommy H
The split is roughly 50/50, but I think you will find that in the military, it most certainly is not. British women are still not allowed on the front lineas for elves, (star and old world!) they do include at least some women, even if the only difference is a pair of armour plated (or barely covered in the case of some of the dark elf range) breasts. As far as the IG go, I don't have the army book and don't know the fluff but being recruited in to the military doesn't necessarily mean you'll be on the front line. The military needs clerks, cooks, drivers, engineers, Intelligence, admin officers, recruiters storemen etc.

More noticeable to me is the almost complete lack of black humans/ dwarfs/ elves etc that appear on the pages of white dwarf as models. I know that you can paint your models to your own preference but what an example WD has set! Sexist Racist biggots!!!!

Thommy H:

As far as the IG go, I don't have the army book and don't know the fluff but being recruited in to the military doesn't necessarily mean you'll be on the front line. The military needs clerks, cooks, drivers, engineers, Intelligence, admin officers, recruiters storemen etc.
The implication, at least as regards Cadians, is that the women fight alongside the men.

Anyway the point is that most fantasy settings aren't exactly short on female warriors, but GW seems to avoid that particular trope - possibly because of their "darker and grittier" ethos. I still maintain it's because their sculptors suck at women though - most of them are pretty awful.

Hammerhand:

They can if they put their mind to it



She’s pretty sweet!

Thommy H:

Sure, but she’s no Shimmer.

Actually, to be fair, they’re getting better. All their women used to look like men with breasts stuck on, but now they seem to have found some sculptors who can actually convey femininity. I still say they’re below the curve of the industry standard in that regard though.

Dracomancer:

See, to me at least, Hasslefree miniatures are the definition of sexist, if its female then it HAS to have massive boobs and little to no clothing, I prefer the GW wood elves, at least their female models look more like compeitent fighters and less like porn stars…

Thommy H:

if its female then it HAS to have massive boobs and little to no clothing
Heh...which is funny, because the creative force behind the sculpting of those figures is Kev White's wife, Sally. He prefers doing other stuff, but the naked women are what makes them money.

It's worth pointing out that they have plenty of female figures which are fully clothed too, and a variety of different body types (indeed, hasslefree are well known for showcasing 'fuller figured' women in their model ranges).

catbarf:

The thing is, GW doesn’t put female models interspersed with males because it doesn’t work. In a fantasy setting, female features are deliberately exaggerated to make it possible for you to realize they’re female from a couple feet away. They’re sculpted to stand out.

With things like Imperial Guard or Eldar, where they should blend in and not stand apart, the fantasy aspect fails them, in that it would look strange for the men to be large and macho (the Crapachans look like they’re from 300…) but the women to appear realistically portrayed. It either has to be exaggerated (and thus stand out for being obviously female) or it can be realistic (and also stand out for being obviously subdued compared to all the hulking macho male figs). Either way, it’s a failure.

Dracomancer:

Interesting angle, however the main army that I would expect to see females in (cadian imperial guard, they inlist anyone after all), the male models are so un-macho (a chaos marine can wipe out an entire platoon by giving it a very nasty look after all), that females would be able to get away with being realistically portrayed, maybe just by adding a female head or two and some slight bumpage on a couple of torsos on the cadian sprue, this means that they would look like females without being exaggerated, just my two cents on the matter :).

torn:

lol as far as fluff is concerned ive never heard of a female imperial guardsman, now thats everything up until the 2nd edition imperial guard codex, and a few novels, comics, short stories etc. A few conversions would be nice but in fatigues and helmet you would have to look close to tell the difference, unless you were ding the big busty bimbo look.

i can tell you dark eldar plastic warriors have intermixed males and females, but the only difference is a slight curvage on the torso. i didnt even realise until i had finished painting a few.

i can say in my opinion games workshop have steered clear of the female miniatures like the ones produced by hasslefree etc is because it is will probably offend a sizable chunk of the people who enter a GW store, and that is the mothers of those younglings we all once were. Not a lot of parents are going to be happy having their kids surrounded by models of scantily clad women and gawking horny teenagers who like that sort of thing. Lets be honest it is a big customer base which they wouldnt want to put off. at the end of the day it is a family hobby.

I actually have to be honest here and say that the leader of my dwarf army is that dwarf queen model they have, suitably painted blonde it looks a lot like my girlfriend. (i told her that and thank god she doesnt really know what a dwarf is lol) but generally im against having females in my armies because it just isnt realistic. i know women are in the army nowadays, and i do know a few female soldiers (serving and ex), but none are front line troops, at all, in any circumstance if it can be helped. It makes sense that a fantasy or 40k force is a front line unit, as that is what the game is being played.

oh and just to add to the list dont forget necromunda escher gangers, blood bowl cheerleaders and a few models in the inquisitor range.

Thommy H:

at the end of the day it is a family hobby.
It is? As I mentioned in another thread, I certainly wouldn't want any kids I might have some day reading some of the nastier Skaven and Dark Elf fluff. I was actually genuinely disturbed by some of the Clan Moulder background given in White Dwarf a few years back - it was really warped stuff.

wallacer:

I’m sure GW have avoided female miniatures for a reason.

Most likely it is simply because the sculptors either aren’t interested in sculpting female figures or just don’t think there need to be any.

Slightly old fashioned perhaps, but hardly a massive chauvinist conspiracy. I suspect most of their customers couldn’t care less.

If they did then no doubt the GW bigwigs would be prodding the sculptors with sticks demanding more female toy soldiers.