[Archive] Orc Boys?

Servius:

Ok… I have been having the following problem…

I have ran Orc Boys with 2nd hand weapon and shield, just 2nd Hand Weapon, and Both options on Big’uns. Everytime they just cant seem to get there… Im running a unit of 24 currently with full command… The problem seems that They just draw all the shooting then when they are gone they dont even make a decent screen as my dwarfs are still miles from combat.

does anyone use these guys to ANY effect on the battlefield or am I better off dropping them for Black Orcs or some more warriors or something.

Renufus:

Use Earthshakers and Hobgoblin screens to protect them from shooting.

Also, it’s up to you whether you want to use Big’Uns or Black Orcs. I personally prefer Black Orcs simply because they don’t have to worry about animosity.

Groznit Goregut:

If your problem is shooting, than black orcs is a terrible solution.  Black orcs die just as easily to shooting, but are more expensive.  In fact, many OnG generals don’t use black orcs for this very reason.

Units of 25 orcs should take a lot of shooting to kill.  The T4 means that regular arrows shouldn’t cause that much damage.  I can’t imagine what is going to take out a whole unit of 25 orcs.

Are your orcs going across the field on their own?  That’s not good.  If you are sending units across the field to distract the enemy missile fire, why not use hobgoblins?  They are cheaper.

At least they are spending a lot of effort to kill your orcs instead of the rest of your army.

Servius:

Well first… Im usually not getting hit by bows… Im getting hit my Blowpipes, salamanders, Razordons, Rocks, Burning Alignments or, Blunderbusses & Warmachines.

No matter how I put them they fail epicly… If i give them a screen either the screen dies and they they get pounded  or they ignore the unit leaving me with the problem of being blocked from combat by my own screen. allowing them to get the flank and such.  I really wanted to run orcs in my list but im getting to the point of simply dropping them for 2 units of hobs, a death rocket and some HG bolt throwers…

My issue is the fact that its a 200+ points sink that I lose generally to 2 maybe 3 rounds of shooting… Leaving my dwarfs still miles from combat. so even if they were just for drawing shooting they still have failed.

BilboBaggins:

I personally feel that a unit of orcs like that are best to guard flanks of your warriors or Blunderbusses. Using them as a unit to hammer the flank of any unit charging your Warriors is a better fit. You then could run a smaller unit of them (or 2 smaller units) with no standard to make them less of a points hole in the army.

Maul:

I have had a lot of success with Orcs as a hammer unit. I like them with additional choppa, full command, and the bull centaur BSB in the front line. They just do very well. I like that the BSB can charge out of the unit if her has to. I also like the slightly cheaper point total then dwarves (I never go for big-uns, too expensive). This unit has a lot of attacks, something that my dwarves do not have. They are a great unit to hit a hero level vampire un skeletons or even a blob of zombies and blast through the other side. The boss is a very nice addition so shell out the 12 points or so for him, 3 str 5 attacks on the first round of combat. I rarely leave home without them.

Bassman:

I use 20 of them, full command double choppa and shield. I usually place them nearby my general, I found ld10 orcs a must. At a greater distance they could be panicked too easily, ld 7 is terrible! :expressionless:

They act as a body guard of my lords’ bodyguard. To protect my main warriors unit or a blunderbusses unit’s flank and ready to countercharge.

The secret against missile fire and nasty spell is to provide multiple targets. The enemy should be forced to choose between your orcs, a warriors unit or blunderbusses. I do not know who (but gunlines, of course) could target so many targets at the same time. You also have an heartshaker and tons of hobgoblins to protect your precious main units.

I’ve never lost dwarfs or boyz from my main units due to missile/magick fire. They usually die in CC… :frowning:

Make use of terrain to screen them. I always try to create “lanes” in the battlefield to protect my main units and provide enemies with cheap hobgoblins! :slight_smile:

My 2 cents!

Bassman :hat off

Groznit Goregut:

At a greater distance they could be panicked too easily, ld 7 is terrible! :|

Bassman
This is hysterical to me as I play OnG as my main army. I regularly have to deal with Ld 7 all the time.

Also, we tend to go with units of 25 so it's harder to kill with shooting.

Bassman:

At a greater distance they could be panicked too easily, ld 7 is terrible! :|

Bassman
This is hysterical to me as I play OnG as my main army.   I regularly have to deal with Ld 7 all the time.  

Also, we tend to go with units of 25 so it's harder to kill with shooting.


Groznit Goregut
I know somebody reacted to my panic for ld 7 :)
I play only with Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarfs, I do not have idea how is it possible to play entire armies with ld 7 pr less :P
Oh, well, sometimes I have problems even with elves and their damend ld 8.... :o
Bassman :hat off

BilboBaggins:

Ive played Empire for years and their Ld 7. It’s hard, but doable.

Alan the evil:

In my opinion Orks are not a very good choice…

I alredy said in other posts that use an animose unit like hammer unit it’s not too reliable. Even if I upgrade them in big’uns: so we gonna have an animose hammer unit MORE expensive.

Black Orks are better in Ld, strenght, they don’t suffer animosity and they are more versatiles in HtH combat.

Hobbos are more expendable and cheaper.

I prefear to field this kind of slave instead then Orks.

Groznit Goregut:

I find it quite silly to say that one unit of orcs is so unreliable due to Animosity that you just shouldn’t take it ever. I mean, Animosity happens every so often. It’s not that common that you will even see it every game. It also gives you a boost to move forward as much as it won’t let you move at all.

Also, orcs w/ dual choppas are 7pts each. Compare that to the 14 pts for black orcs? They are twice as expensive! You are worried about the enemy shooting up your orcs? Well, expect it to happen worse with black orcs! Putting black orcs on the table is like putting a big bull’s eye on one unit. Those guys get targeted quite frequently. For the price of one unit of black orcs, you can get two units of regular orcs! The trick with OnG is not to just remove all units with Animosity (impossible), but to just use two units instead of just one. I’d much rather have two large units of orcs than one unit of black orcs.

Border Reiver:

If your orcs are getting killed off by Turn 2 and your dwarfs are still “miles away”, then slow the brutes down and have them march only about and inch or so in front of your CDs. The amount of missile fire that is being expended to eliminate a unit that is only marginally less resistant than your CDs to shooting should mean that more of your CDs get into combat. Also you are immune to panic caused by the orcs, so your line won’t be disrupted, you’re golden!

If your orcs are in a block on your flanks you should have them in a line with the rest of your army, try them with a unit of blunderbusses next to them. If the nasty skinks, etc. get into range to hurt your orcs, on the turn they are killed off/running away from the horendous amounts of shooting, order the blunderbusses to halt, right turn and fire - the template will deal with the pesky skirmishers (no penalty).

Alan the evil:

"Silly?"

If I have a big block in the center employed in HtH combat after a charge and they stand and I need a charge of hammer unit on a flank I absoluty want that they arrive on charge.

BOs worth each point that I spent for them: double points for +1 on strength and no animosity it’s good.

I usually work with strong blocks + BSB and hammer unit and they must to work.

And even a 6 on animosity chart it’s not good: hammer unit must stay close my anvil.

little unit of BOs work as good as (if not better) a bigger unit of orks in my opinion.

If I want spend some points on a animose unit I prefear wolf rider because they need just 2 turns for reach their aims and a single failed animosity test it’s not so unreliable. And roll a 6 with them it’s really good, so I downgrade risks of animosity test .

Reliability is not sillyness.

Groznit Goregut:

I still say it’s silly. By your account, than the entire Orc and Goblin army book (with the exception of black orcs and giants) are not to be used b/c they have Animosity. It’s not like having animosity makes them utterly useless and should never be taken. Will you have a game or two where animosity will make you lose? Yes, but out of how many games? I mean, if you are playing in a tournament and you are quite competitive, than I guess you can’t ever have animosity affect you.

Your situation that you give is a one case scenario. Dwarf = anvil and Orcs = hammer. There are other ways to use Orc Boyz, even if you don’t. It doesn’t sound like Servius is using them that way. Even if we used your scenario, the chances of your hammer unit to not move is how low? I would rather take two units of orcs and put one on each flank and have redundancy that way than to go with black orcs. That way, when most of the time you will have TWO units charging into the flank, you can utterly crush them! Come to think of it, what if the unit you are fighting causes fear? Your black orcs might fail a Ld check! There is a slight chance of that happening. If you have TWO regular orc units, the chance of you getting at least one of them into combat is a lot greater than using just black orcs.

For all the times that people on these forums tell me I could use 20 points in a better way to get another unit of hobgoblins out there, how can you have such a hard time using the same points as black orcs for two units of orcs? They are the same points and two units! The only draw back I see is if you are using all of your other special slots.

Servius:

hey hey hey… Lets simmer down…

I ended up going with  2 units of 10 boys and im going to try that out…

Piccolo:

shooting is always a problem… one time when I played against the Empire I lost an entire unit of 20 black orcs to a helblaster in a single turn.

Think of it this way, If they get shot somebody else isn’tx.x

Alan the evil:

one time when I played against the Empire I lost an entire unit of 20 black orcs to a helblaster in a single turn
x.x it happened to me more than once: there is a friend of mine who plays empire and he always uses hellblaster. Almost every times my black orks were in range were wipe away by it!!
The epic and continous dead of BO by hellblaster began to be a catchphrase. :)
But shooting is always a problem: that's why I drop big unit of BO and great taurus.

BilboBaggins:

shooting is always a problem... one time when I played against the Empire I lost an entire unit of 20 black orcs to a helblaster in a single turn.
Think of it this way, If they get shot somebody else isn'tx.x

Piccolo
Was that 6th or 7th edition rules? It would be harder under 7th edition to do that.

Alan the evil:

it happened even in 7th edition very often…

I must to point that almost every time he did a misfire he rolled a 6 on misfire chart… (for who doesn’t know to roll a 6 on hellblaster misfire chart means that all hellblaster remaining guns shot 10 hits).