[Archive] Pistols? **This message was automatically appended because it was too short.**

Groznit Goregut:

Does anyone take pistols? They just seem like a lot of points for one shot. Does one shot do anything on a Stand and Shoot? Any good stories with them?

Bolg:

My unit champion has one. its 2 points, always good for a stand and shoot.

I keep forgetting or miss but point wise I love the investment.

MLP:

Equip your unit champion with one so all other missile weapons in unit with ranged weapons fire at 6" (short range) on stand and shoot making them hit on 5+ instead of 6+ most of the time. Great for Fireglaives, not really much effect for Blunderbusses unless under 10 models.

Also can be an extra wound on a stand and shoot for a Daemonsmith guarding your war machines. Personally I prefer Napha Bombs for this though.

Hashut’s Blessing:

If you have the pistol, you can’t use your shield in combat - you have to go two hand weapons, great weapon or fireglaive. Don’t forget to factor that in.

Although it can be fun to attack someone with three attacks, especially in a challenge :stuck_out_tongue:

Bolg:

If you have the pistol, you can't use your shield in combat - you have to go two hand weapons, great weapon or fireglaive. Don't forget to factor that in.

Although it can be fun to attack someone with three attacks, especially in a challenge :P

Hashut's Blessing
How is that? this sounds like a pair of pistols, they count as additional handweapons. a singel pistol has no affect of you using your shield or not.

MLP:

If you have the pistol, you can't use your shield in combat - you have to go two hand weapons, great weapon or fireglaive. Don't forget to factor that in.

Although it can be fun to attack someone with three attacks, especially in a challenge :P

Hashut's Blessing
How is that? this sounds like a pair of pistols, they count as additional handweapons. a singel pistol has no affect of you using your shield or not.


Bolg
Yes you're right, only a Brace of pistols counts as an extra hand weapon. Pistol only has a shooting profile. Although the description in the BRB is a little missleading.

Marduk:

Equip your unit champion with one so all other missile weapons in unit with ranged weapons fire at 6" (short range) on shand and shoot making them hit on 5+ instead of 6+ most of the time.

MLP
I was not aware of this rule. VERY interesting.

Geist:

Orrr you can take blunderbusses and not care about the being charged rule.  MUHAHAH
Also bear in mind that the rule for shooting on a charge is at longest range of shortest range weapon. Pistols are range 12, so that really wont help sadly.

zhatan87:

Yes you're right, only a Brace of pistols counts as an extra hand weapon. Pistol only has a shooting profile. Although the description in the BRB is a little missleading.
Very strange, in french, the description of the pistol says that it follows the rule of additionnal hand weapon...
You don't have this note in english?

Thus, I played the pistol only with special weapon (great weapon, fireglaives) in order to keep the shield and the parry save...

nilbog:

brb page 91…'unlike other weapons, a pistol can be used as both a missile weapon and a close combat weapon, following the same rules as an additional hand weapon’

So it can be used as an additional hand weapon, it doesn’t have to be

Alos, MLP’s point, page 17 brb…‘stand and shoot reaction…just within range of the unit’s shortest range weapon’, which means a unit of fireglaives always stands and shoots as if the enemy were within 6" (pistol short range), thereby negating long range penalties.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Whilst it doesn’t HAVE to be, the rules also point out that a special weapon (like an additioal hand weapon) MUST be used over a shield, so in that situation, you have no choice. It’s a coverall so that you aren’t forced to use two hand weaons instead of your great weapon.

Geist:

Guys, pistols will not give you a better to hit with fireglaives, on a stand and shoot reaction.

The rules for stand and shoot are very simple, longest range of SHORTEST range weapon. Pistols are range 12, fire glavies are 18. The numbers dont match. Also quick to fire only effects the weapon with that type. Not the unit for the purpose of stand and shoot.

Nilbog and MLB I suggest you BOTH reread the passage on page 17 about stand and shoot

"the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just withing maximum range of the shooting units shortest-ranged weapon.

MLP:

Guys, pistols will not give you a better to hit with fireglaives, on a stand and shoot reaction.
The rules for stand and shoot are very simple, longest range of SHORTEST range weapon.  Pistols are range 12, fire glavies are 18.  The numbers dont match.  Also quick to fire only effects the weapon with that type.  Not the unit for the purpose of stand and shoot.

Nilbog and MLB I suggest you BOTH reread the passage on page 17 about stand and shoot
"the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just withing maximum range of the shooting units shortest-ranged weapon.

Geist
I know exactly how the stand and shoot rules work. The range for a pistol is 6" unless I am mistaken. And in the case I am right it would cause the unit to stand and shoot at short range with fireglaives. In the case I am wrong about the range I must've been thinking of Naptha bombs.

I can understand how the rule could be misinterpreted in French, it sounds similar in English! It is the description that states it is also used as an extra hand weapon but rules wise it's only the brace of pistols which you actually have it as an extra hand weapon. As a single pistol it is used only as a ranged weapon.

Hashut’s Blessing:

MLP: Unfortunately, you are thinking of Naptha Bombs, but it simply means use Naptha Bombs for that purpose.

Regarding the pistol having to be used over a shield, if you use the quote given by nilbog on page 91, the single pistol can be combned with a normal hand weapon to use as two hand weapons. If so, you HAVE to use that or another special weapon (great weapon or fireglaive) over a shield.

However, if the ingle pistol didn’t say it could be used as an additional hand weapon, then you wouldn’t have to.

cornixt:

A single pistol can only be used for shooting, but a brace of pistols can be used in combat too. It’s confusing in the rulebook because they also describe the rules for the brace in the generic pistol section ,which doesn’t have a proper table for using a single pistol in combat (because you can’t).

Geist:

So let me get part of this idea right? You want to take a 15pt item to make a unit of fire glavies able to hit better on a stand and shoot? First let me say, grats on catching an interesting idea.

Secondly, a better way to do this is take a khan with a thrown weapon and put him in a block of fire glavies. As far as I can tell there is nothing that says gobos cant join dwarfs. Sure they cant do it the other way around. But that should be alot cheaper for such a task.

Lastly, why is it going to matter exactly about a pistol in hand to hand? You cant buy braces of em, the only person who does not come with a magic weapon automatically is a castellen. If you buy a pistol you use it as a hand weapon, and since you cant get a brace you cant have extra attacks because of it. In fact unless I am mistaken you cant get extra attacks from anything, outside of magic weapons in our book. So in summary why does it matter what the second rule of a pistol is or if its a brace?

MLP:

So let me get part of this idea right?  You want to take a 15pt item to make a unit of fire glavies able to hit better on a stand and shoot?   First let me say, grats on catching an interesting idea.  
        Secondly, a better way to do this is take a khan with a thrown weapon and put him in a block of fire glavies.  As far as I can tell there is nothing that says gobos cant join dwarfs.  Sure they cant do it the other way around.  But that should be alot cheaper for such a task.

Geist
Naptha bombs are only 5 points for the unt champion, and pretty effective in their own right. The bonus for stand and shoot is just an extra trick to consider.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Also, the naptha bombs can do D3 wounds.

With regards to the pistol in close combat debate, I did rectify my statement to point out the quote that was referenced tells you it is an additional hand weapon. Of course, what wasn’t mentioned was the context - regardless, if a single pistol COULD be used as an additional hand weapon (which I think everybody is now agreed it can’t) then you’d have to use it over a shied. Geist - not sure what relevance the lack of additional hand weapons in our list anywhere else is, to be honest, lol.

As for a hobgoblin khan joining the infernal guard - the rules state that a unit with (can’t remember the name of the rule, damnit!) contempt can’t join a unit without and that only a character with the rule can join a unit with the rule. Something similar: regardless, it specifically states that you can’t - otherwise people would have been doing so.

The Besieger:

So normal a Sorcerer-Prophet and a Daemonsmith Sorcerer cant have the Pistol option because both have automatic a magical weapon?

“A additional hand weapon cannot be used by a mounted model ,

or by a model that has a magical close combat weapon.”

Grimbold Blackhammer:

There is a difference between “having” and “using”. A Sorcerer-Prophet most certainly CAN prchase a pistol but they would not use it in close combat.

Hashut’s Blessing is correct - a pistol does have a 12" range which would not guarantee a unit of Fireglaive-wielding dwarves would shoot at short range. Sadly they would still be shooting at long range. However a Naptha Bomb does only have a range of 6" and is perfect for giving to a Deathmask for a measly 2 points (as opposed to a character for a whopping 15 points) and would ensure all stand & shoot reactions occur at short range.

Grimbold Blackhammer