[Archive] RIP Major Winters (1918-2011)

Willmark:

A true Hero.

Central figure in 'Band of Brothers' dead at 92 - CNN.com

RIP Major Winters you’ve earned it.

richard barby:

well said

This message was automatically appended because it was too short.

Loki:

Gone but never forgotten

Blue in VT:

:cheers

Yeah this really made me sad…as a military historian he has always been one of my favorite subjects…to my mind the ideal “citizen soldier”…as said above…gone…but not forgotten.

RIP…and thank you Maj. Winters

Blue

Swissdictator:

Indeed, one of the icons of the greatest generation. He has his peace now too…

vulcanologist:

The word hero is used far too much today. This was a real hero but of course he would be the last person in the world to acknowlege it.

Willmark:

Heroes don’t call themselves heroes. Those that think they are “heroes” today are nothing but stuffed shirts pretending to be heroes.

When you look up hero the World War II generation is there staring you in the face.

vulcanologist:

Well said willmark! Rip a true hero and the reason we all live in freedom.

Redhammer:

It’s people like this that make me proud to be American. It’s rare to find a true hero, and he will be missed.

Bassman:

I thanks everybody that freed my people from the Nazis and the Fascists. I love history, not only big events like huge battles and wars, but the common people that fought and struggle for their lives, like the common soldiers in the mud of their trenches.

Thanks again to them and major Winters, the “real” heroes. :slight_smile:

Ishkur Cinderhat:

The word hero is used far too much today. This was a real hero but of course he would be the last person in the world to acknowlege it.

vulcanologist
Indeed. Thanks to HBO and Band of Brothers even I know who this man was!
Rest In *most deserved* Piece.

Willmark:

At the end of the series Major Winters talks about a letter sent to him by Serjeant Mike Ramey who served in Easy Company. Sgt Rammey related the letter in an interview and people thought it was Major Winters that said it but ever the gentlemen he just relayed the message, from Sgt Rammey’s grandson:

“Grandpa were you a hero in the war?” Grandpa looked at him and said “No. But I served in a company of heroes.” Tell me that’s not modesty.

I think that’s what gets lost throughout all the chest thumping these days: Yes America was probably the single biggest factor* in winning the war but it was the ordinary men and women who served who did it. Men like Major Winters, like my grandfather who served in General Pattons army in North Africa and Italy**

* When even Stalin raises a glass to American industrial output you know it was significant. As a student of history and counter-factual history almost every time it comes down to the fact that whatever was needed the US would have built; in no scenario does this ever change. This is what Yamamoto feared, the nearly limitless, untapped industrial output of the US. Think about what actually happened: the US armed two fleets, two armies (both pacific and atlantic) the UK, the allied countries in exile and supplied the Russians as well with massive amounts of material its mind boggling.

** my grandfather told me a story several times that the first time he saw General Patton was in North Africa along with General Eisenhower. They pretty much all disliked Patton but they all respected him, trusted him to bring them through alive realizing he would do his utmost to win.

After the famed slapping incident in Sicily Eisenhower ordered Patton to apologize unit by unit. They were called to attention and as he began to speak they began shout and make noise he ordered them to be quiet. They disobeyed. The reason? The soldiers felt that he did not owe them an apology. Many units did this apparently and my grandfathers was one of them. He saw it and heard it firsthand. Damn impressive amount of respect.

GRNDL:

I think that's what gets lost throughout all the chest thumping these days: Yes America was probably the single biggest factor* in winning the war but it was the ordinary men and women who served who did it. Men like Major Winters, like my grandfather who served in General Pattons army in North Africa and Italy**

* When even Stalin raises a glass to American industrial output you know it was significant. As a student of history and counter-factual history almost every time it comes down to the fact that whatever was needed the US would have built; in no scenario does this ever change. This is what Yamamoto feared, the nearly limitless, untapped industrial output of the US. Think about what actually happened: the US armed two fleets, two armies (both pacific and atlantic) the UK, the allied countries in exile and supplied the Russians as well with massive amounts of material its mind boggling.

** my grandfather told me a story several times that the first time he saw General Patton was in North Africa along with General Eisenhower. They pretty much all disliked Patton but they all respected him, trusted him to bring them through alive realizing he would do his utmost to win.

After the famed slapping incident in Sicily Eisenhower ordered Patton to apologize unit by unit. They were called to attention and as he began to speak they began shout and make noise he ordered them to be quiet. They disobeyed. The reason? The soldiers felt that he did not owe them an apology. Many units did this apparently and my grandfathers was one of them. He saw it and heard it firsthand. Damn impressive amount of respect.

Willmark
Its a shame the modesty ended with this post. The US left Europe to rot for 2 years by staying out the war, politically and aid-wise, as along as it could. Of course it was in a great position to help out - its home ground was completely unmolested for the entire war. That "limitless, untapped industrial power" lay dormant in the war effort for far too long, despite continual requests from its future allies. The Lend-Lease act passed in 1940 and almost didn't. If Germany hadn't have declared war on the US, the US might not have actually ended up in Europe at all, since it "wasn't their problem".

Big "contributors" are many and it is dangerous to say any which one "won the war." If the Nazis had launched even one more air assault during the Battle of Britain, the UK would have been completely compromised and Operation Sealion given the go ahead. Inevitably, Britain would have fallen and Operation Overlord would probably have never happened - COULD not happen and the US involvement in the European theatre along with it.

Also, the invasion of Italy was threatened by the "Rush to Rome" of US commanders pushing too far north forming a dangerous salient without the support of the allies. Courageous commanders or not, this is not heroism.

I get it, we love our countries and are proud of the people who fought for them. Just remember it wasn't done alone, nor could be. Trying to lay claim to the honour is ridiculous and shallow.

Ask a Russian about the sacrifice during WW2 and you'll see how big the contribution is there. Ask about Stalingrad and Kursk. It took a million Russian deaths to break the Nazi 6th Army and the biggest defensive line ever constructed to win the Battle of Kursk. Also, the war in the Pacific might have gone entirely differently if Russia had allied with Japan as per the latter's requests for aid.

WW2 wasn't just won by enduring soldiers putting everything on the line, nor by the behind them. There was a lot of luck as well. At Dunkirk, Hitler pulled back several very well equipped, veteran armour divisions away from Dunkirk, rather than crushing the British participation in the war completely. This was done against the recommendation of the commanders of those units. If it had been a complete massacre, Britain would have capitulated and withdrew from the war. Hitler thought of it as a "good will gesture to potential allies." One could say that was a rather large contribution.

Hell, you can thank a dead hobo/tramp for the successful invasion of Sicily and the beginning of the Italian campaign.

I find it ironic, Willmark, that you tell us not to post politically incendiary remarks and then you go and do this. Especially with so many European users of this site. I know that, growing up in the UK as a child of two Brits who went through the war, that the US statement of "winning the war" and "without the US the British would be speaking German" are sickening comments. Not because they deny the US involvement, but simply because it when it came and why.