Sorry if this is a basic question, but pretty much all of my gaming group are new to WHFB.
1) When using a weapon that causes multiple wounds (magma cannon for example) what is the procedure for determining multiple wounds, and do those wounds spread over to other models in the unit?
Say that the flame template has pegged 7 models in a regiment of 25 elves. I cause wounds to six, and roll 2 for multiple wounds. Does that mean that i kill (armour check pending) just the six single wound elves, or do i kill 12? or does multiple wounds come in to play only if shooting at models that have more than one wound?
2) My opponent had a buff spell on a unit that meant that units shooting at the unit that do not use a ballistic skill can only target it if they roll a 4+. I was shooting my deathshrieker at it('s general direction…), but as the rules for the rocket state that you place a small marker anywhere then roll for scatter and that is where the shot lands, It seemed to me like that means it is not shooting at that unit, it is shooting at the template target location, so I didn’t do the 4+ test. Is that correct or not?
No, you multiply the Wounds inflicted on each model. Multiple Wounds has no effect on models with 1 Wound. In your example, you would only kill six Elves.
2) The stone thrower rules state that if you place the template on a unit, a specific model has to be under the hole, so you’d need to roll 4+ in that instance. You could aim elsewhere and hope to scatter though. Sadly, the Deathshrieker doesn’t use the rules for a stone thrower - it’s functionally identical, but doesn’t have some of the specifics (like this situation), since FW for some reason decided to just reiterate a version of the stone thrower rules for each of their machines instead of just saying “follows the rules for a stone thrower”. I’d follow the same precedent though - if the marker is placed on a model in the affected unit, you have to roll. If it’s on blank table near the unit (and you’re just hoping to scatter), you don’t need to roll.
Cool i am a cheaty baftard then placing the template a millimetre outside the unit and copping half of the units on a hit, perhaps scattering onto the unit for more, seems like better odds than doing nothing 50% of the time in that situation.
It’s maybe me but Tommy’s responses don’t satisfy me fully.
1) Tommy is right but you don’t roll once for all the hits, you have to rould each multiple wound separately. If you hit 6 Ogres for example, you roll 6 times the multiple wounds and add them up. Note that each roll can not exceed the number of wounds the model has on its profile. For your example with elves, it’s capped at 1, pretty obvious and no need to roll. For Ogres for example, it’s capped at 3 (they have 3 wounds). So if a Magma Cannon wounds 6 Ogres, you roll 6 dices. Let’s say you roll 6-5-4-3-2-1 for multiple wounds, anything over 3 is capped at 3 so it gets 3-3-3-3-2-1 which is 15 wounds total.
2) If you’re talking about Pha’s Protection, there is actually an Errata which contradicts what Tommy is saying :
Q: If a unit is augmented by Pha�?Ts Protection how does this
interact with Shooting attacks that do not specifically target a unit?
For example a cannon or stone thrower shot? (Reference)
A: Fire the shot as normal. If the template ends up over any
models in a unit that have been augmented by Pha�?Ts
Protection roll a D6. On a 4+ the entire shot is discounted.
1) Tommy is right but you don't roll once for all the hits, you have to rould each multiple wound separately. If you hit 6 Ogres for example, you roll 6 times the multiple wounds and add them up. Note that each roll can not exceed the number of wounds the model has on its profile. For your example with elves, it's capped at 1, pretty obvious and no need to roll. For Ogres for example, it's capped at 3 (they have 3 wounds). So if a Magma Cannon wounds 6 Ogres, you roll 6 dices. Let's say you roll 6-5-4-3-2-1 for multiple wounds, anything over 3 is capped at 3 so it gets 3-3-3-3-2-1 which is 15 wounds total.
How is that any different from what I said, except for being much more long-winded?
Little bit different, but lets say that you cast Flames of Azgorh, and due to scatter etc, you wound 2 ogres.
Eg1. You roll a 6 and 6 for wounds. You total the wounds you have done, in this case 12. However, you only hit 2 ogres, so you kill those 2 ogres, and the other wounds are wasted.
Eg2. You roll a 5 and 1 for wounds. You total the wounds you have done, in this case 6, which is enough to kill the 2 ogres you have hit.
Little bit different, but lets say that you cast Flames of Azgorh, and due to scatter etc, you wound 2 ogres.
Eg1. You roll a 6 and 6 for wounds. You total the wounds you have done, in this case 12. However, you only hit 2 ogres, so you kill those 2 ogres, and the other wounds are wasted.
Eg2. You roll a 5 and 1 for wounds. You total the wounds you have done, in this case 6, which is enough to kill the 2 ogres you have hit.
I am pretty sure that is how it works.
eudaimon
incorrect. a model cannot receive more wounds than he has on his profile. pg 45 of the small rulebook.
I think that bit on page 45 presents us with a bit of a problem.
Here is the exact quote:
If a unit of creatures with more than 1 Wound
on their profile is hit by a weapon that causes
multiple wounds, determine how many wounds
are caused on each model individually
(remember that each model cannot suffer more
wounds than it has on its profile). Add up all
wounds caused on the unit and then remove the
appropriate number of models, noting any spare
wounds on the unit.
The key bit of this text is “determine how many wounds are caused on each model individually” and that “each model cannot suffer more than the wounds on its profile”.
Imagine the following scenario:
You score a hit on a gut star of 12 models with Flames of Azgorh. It has 3 characters and a champ. They all pass their LoS. You then roll to wound with 12 dice, only hitting the 8 ogres in the unit. You don’t roll any 1s and so have wounded 12 times. You then roll 12 x d6 wounds.
Your luck is out and you roll 8x 1s and 4x 4s. How many ogres die?
We can’t apply the rules as written in this scenario, because each ogre has not taken a single hit and so we can’t roll to determine the number of wounds individually. Do the rules mean that we should roll 12 individual dice and kill ogres as we go?
I presume you would say that 6 ogres die in this scenario?
The number of Wounds inflicted on each Ogre is capped at 3. Once you’ve determined how many Wounds are inflicted (which physically cannot be greater than 3 for each model hit, regardless of what you roll for Multiple Wounds) you remove models as per the usual rules.
In your example, you Wound twelve Ogres. You roll eight 1s (for a total of 8 Wounds) and four 4s (for a total of 12 Wounds, because each Ogre can’t take more than 3 Wounds). Therefore, the total damage done to the unit is 20 Wounds, so you remove six Ogres and another takes 2 Wounds (assuming none of them have been damaged earlier in the battle).
See how it works? Multiple Wounds are inflicted on models, but the eventual damage is distributed as normal on the unit.
The key bit of this text is “determine how many wounds are caused on each model individually” and that “each model cannot suffer more than the wounds on its profile”.
eudaimon
We can’t apply the rules as written in this scenario, because each ogre has not taken a single hit and so we can’t roll to determine the number of wounds individually. Do the rules mean that we should roll 12 individual dice and kill ogres as we go?
eudaimon
the rules don’t ask to determine the number of hits though it only specifies for the number of wounds. you can still determine how many wounds the models take. so a model can’t take more wounds than it has on its characteristic value so the multiple wounds are capped at 3 each. in your example you rolled 4444 1111 1111 this would then change to 3333 1111 1111. so you do 20 wounds. killing 6 ogres and doing 2 wound to another.
I had to edit my post a few times because I didn’t read the example right (I’m scrolling back and forth on a phone…) but yes, 20 Wounds in total. It seems complex, but Multiple Wounds is the Warhammer equivalent of Instant Death in 40K - high Strength hits that squish characters. It only gets a bit confusing when you have big units of multi-Wound models running around. For the majority of units in the game, Multiple Wounds does nothing.
placing the template a millimetre outside the unit and copping half of the units on a hit, perhaps scattering onto the unit for more, seems like better odds than doing nothing 50% of the time in that situation.