Spartacus:
Ok, I’ve poked around and found the answers to most of my Chaos Dwarf questions (or at least the lengthy argument pertaining thereof), but there are a few answers that I haven’t found.
1. If I am shooting into a building with BB, are all the models in the building hit on a 4+? Even if I only knick the building?
2. If I am shooting out of a building (per the faq) with BB, do I have to shoot in the direction of one of the four cardinal points of the building, or can I shoot at any angle I want (and use the width of the building from that angle)?
3. If I have a unit of BB on a hill, can they shoot over friendly troops in front of them below?
4. Can the Dark Mace of Death be used against multiple models if in a challenge?
BilboBaggins:
Not sure about 1 or 2
3 - I’d say NO because Blunderbuss is a templet weapon and would hit all under the templet on 4+.
4 - I’d say NO because in a challenge you are only in base contact with the model challenging you. You would have do nominate rider or monster for the hits also. It would be best used if you are surrounded. If a model has one wound the remaining of the D3 doesn’t carry over to the unit.
snowblizz:
4 - I'd say NO because in a challenge you are only in base contact with the model challenging you. You would have do nominate rider or monster for the hits also. It would be best used if you are surrounded. If a model has one wound the remaining of the D3 doesn't carry over to the unit.
BilboBaggins
There seems to be some wiggle room here. IIRC some Chaos item and the TK Destroyer of Eterneties can affect models outside of the challenge. Think it was FAQed or something such.
I saw a discussion with regards to some other item around this same problem.
BilboBaggins:
Those are items that they have said the itmes effect outside the challenge. But taking the idea of a challenge is that the two models are removed from the ranks and fight along side then anything that says base contact cannot affect the unit.
Checking the FAQ for the Chaos Bloodskull Pendent (Warriors of Chaos FAQ 2009) says it can be used on models in base to base contact in a challenge, any hits “are entirely accidental, honest.” This seems to go against the rules of the BRB nd common sense.
I do know in a challenge the Destroyer of Eterneties states it only works on the model in the challenge, but if challenge is against a monster mount and rider both are affected.
Thommy H:
Actually, the models aren’t removed in a challenge - they’re moved in the ranks so they’re in base contact with one another. No one ever bothers doing it, but they do actually remain in base contact with other models during a challenge.
BilboBaggins:
Actually, the models aren't removed in a challenge - they're moved in the ranks so they're in base contact with one another. No one ever bothers doing it, but they do actually remain in base contact with other models during a challenge.
Thommy H
I'm guessing that changed from 6th to 7th edition, where I play we always took them out of the units.
It still makes on sense that you can attack anyone else in a CHALLENGE since you are supposed to be attacking one model. That would really have fun with certain items/traits/skills.
Skaven Slayer Skill (Slayer Army) and similar items that adds attacks for models in base contact. He could then have up to 10 attacks in a challenge, can't GW see how wrong that would be?
Thommy H:
On the other hand, it would make all “models in base contact” abilities and items fairly useless - an opponent can just make a challenge in order to effectively negate the ability. I mean, they can answer with a champion instead, but not everyone takes a champion, and once the champion is dead the ability might as well be gone.
Baggronor:
Skaven Slayer Skill (Slayer Army) and similar items that adds attacks for models in base contact. He could then have up to 10 attacks in a challenge, can't GW see how wrong that would be?
Well, they failed to see how wrong unlimited Doomseekers were :)
The item does specifically say
everyone in base contact. Nothing about challenges. If it were re-written for current rules, I'm sure it would say 'only the model fighting the challenge is affected', a bit like the Chaos Berserker Sword for example, but under the current rules it would be everyone in base contact.
You would cause overkill on the champion in the challenge too :)
Kera foehunter:
Baggronor
Skaven Slayer Skill (Slayer Army) and similar items that adds attacks for models in base contact. He could then have up to 10 attacks in a challenge, can't GW see how wrong that would be?
well there mean mothers !! Its real easy don't challenge them!!
But you could beat them in a drinking contest they only count as one he he
BilboBaggins:
On the other hand, it would make all "models in base contact" abilities and items fairly useless - an opponent can just make a challenge in order to effectively negate the ability. I mean, they can answer with a champion instead, but not everyone takes a champion, and once the champion is dead the ability might as well be gone.
Thommy H
That is the reason to challenge them, to prevent one hero character negating your CR by killing 10 models at a shot.
Skaven Slayer Skill (Slayer Army) and similar items that adds attacks for models in base contact. He could then have up to 10 attacks in a challenge, can't GW see how wrong that would be?
BilboBaggins
Well, they failed to see how wrong unlimited Doomseekers were :)
The item does specifically say everyone in base contact. Nothing about challenges. If it were re-written for current rules, I'm sure it would say 'only the model fighting the challenge is affected', a bit like the Chaos Berserker Sword for example, but under the current rules it would be everyone in base contact.
You would cause overkill on the champion in the challenge too :)
Baggronor
When was the rule written? 6th edition when challenges meant challenges and you only had the challenge model in base contact.
Unlimited Doomies was a very bad idea (except for unscrupulous power gamers.) And you couldn't challenge them either. But Doomies had limitations against Knights, Monsters, and multi wound model units. My personal limit for Doomies at 2K is 1 per ranked unit (including Long Drong's and Hewer). I guess that is why I don't have a problem with finding people to play against them.
well there mean mothers !! Its real easy don't challenge them!!
But you could beat them in a drinking contest they only count as one he he
Kera foehunter
Again the main reason to challenge them would be to negate any possible in base contact ability. Otherwise just accept the wounds on the unit and hope to win combat.
Imagine hitting a lone Daemonslayer on the front and rear with 20mm base sized units. He issues a challenge and you accept (maybe forced to for some reason, like goading) with a hero. He could then be found out to have SkavenSlayer, Death Blow and a runic Weapon with Master Rune of Skalk Blackhammer and Grudge Rune (and you just challenged him with his nominated hero) and Rune of Striking.
He would then have 10 attacks (assuming you attack first and this isn't second round of combat) that'll likely hit on 3 (re-roll misses for grudge rune) and wound on 2's no matter your toughness. Assuming you aren't an elf but a decent T4 or T5 hero model that means -3 or -4 to your armor save and those attacks will happen even if you kill him.
There is a reason I rarely take Skaven Slayer ability. If I do he is only a Dragon Slayer (only one ability) and Master Rune of Alaric the Mad. That way he is a can opener against knights (or other 2+ AS units).
I hope they fix the challenges back the way it was (and worked fine) in their next edition.