[Archive] Runes

Balseraph:

Hi,

I have a question, maybe stupid but…

Why CD don’t use Runes??

Why they “forget” about it??

I looking for answer but, don’t find it…

Maybe you will answer…

Thx :slight_smile:

Hashut’s Blessing:

They do still use runes, at least in the non-magical sense. A lot of people may start to say that we use runes to bind daemons to thing. I’d say at the very least we may use it to bind magic to weapons etc.

Ancient History:

Well, if you accept the material in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, there was a rift among the early Dwarfs regarding the use of magic, with the majority preferring rune-magic and a minority eager to pursue actual sorcery-these later went north and and east and became the Chaos Dwarfs.

In Warhammer Fantasy Battles, of course, the abandonment of runecraft and the practice of sorcery are just to show how far the Chaos Dwarfs have diverged from their Dwarf cousins-nothing is more antithetical to a Dwarf army than spellcasting!

There has been some debate, given the presentation in the novel Grudgebearer and a few other places, that Chaos Dwarf sorcerer-priests and sorcerer-engineers might still use runes to trap daemons inside engines of destruction and the like.

Pyro Stick:

Theres always the Rune of Hashut and the small runes on the staff of the marauder mage.

AGPO:

If your refering to the rules, its because Dwarfs get them. In return we get Cavalry, cheap hobgoblins, greenskins, flying monsters and magic. Fair swap I’d say

dedwrekka:

Because of when chaos spilled across the old world. The Dwarfs didn’t learn runecraft until they were taught it by Grungni, by that time the dwarfs of the great skull land, chaos dwarfs, were already corrupted. So the Chaos Dwarfs would have never learned to craft runes the way dwarfs did.

Xander:


Because of when chaos spilled across the old world. The Dwarfs didn't learn runecraft until they were taught it by Grungni, by that time the dwarfs of the great skull land, chaos dwarfs, were already corrupted. So the Chaos Dwarfs would have never learned to craft runes the way dwarfs did.


dedwrekka
This sounds logical to me.

dedwrekka:


Because of when chaos spilled across the old world. The Dwarfs didn't learn runecraft until they were taught it by Grungni, by that time the dwarfs of the great skull land, chaos dwarfs, were already corrupted. So the Chaos Dwarfs would have never learned to craft runes the way dwarfs did.


dedwrekka
This sounds logical to me.


Xander
Pulled it from the dwarf book. :cheers

We, Chaos Dwarfs, never had Great Ancestors like Grungni, Grimnir, or Valaya to protect us from chaos, teach us rune script or clear our mountain lands of demons :mad

metro_gnome:

ye gods no!

Grungi, Grimnir, and Valaya all abandoned us to the Chaos Incursion… or so sayeth Hashut…

time to dust off the WRPG “daemon prince” fluff…

“One of the Daemon Princes, Hashut, revolted against the Lords of Chaos. Khorne swatted Hashut away and sent other Daemon Princes with their retinues to slay the defiant daemon…The Chaos Incursion ignored the Dark Lands until Hashut�s revolt against the Lords of Chaos. Fleeing from the Daemon Princes sent by the Blood God to destroy him, Hashut made his stand in the Dark Lands. The savage battles they fought boiled away the rivers and left the land a desiccated ruin. The servants of the Daemon Princes destroyed Goblin and Hobgoblin villages to deny Hashut any possible allies.

These new (though unwitting) allies gave Hashut the opportunity to turn against his pursuers. He killed many, but Khorne always sent more. Knowing they would eventually overwhelm him, Hashut withdrew into the underground darkness to rebuild his strength. Khorne�s slaves followed and finally cornered their quarry in a large underground cavern. Suffering from their own wounds, the followers of the Blood God imprisoned Hashut behind a great door of brass and darkened iron to hold him till Khorne saw fit to exact his vengeance in person…”

"…Unlike their western brethren, the Dwarf clans of the Mountains of Mourn didn�t receive Grungni�s warning before the Warpgates collapsed and Warpdust seeped into their settlements. Yet, the eastern Dwarfs realised that something was amiss and closed their doors. A surge of Warp matter obliterated the Dwarfs� surface entrances and entrapped them below. For hundreds of years, the Dark Lands Dwarfs were trapped underground. No matter where they tunnelled, impenetrable rock prevented them from reaching the surface. The Dwarfs burrowed ever-deeper, always seeking a way past the rock that trapped them.

They eventually tunnelled into a magnificent underground gallery with walls of obsidian. Carefully exploring the cavern, the Dwarfs found a huge sealed door made of brass and darkened iron with arcane writings inscribed on it. Rune Lord Grimdalf the Grey took it upon himself to translate the glyph learn what was beyond the door. After many years, Grimdalf successfully read the script and, as he mouthed the last syllable, the resulting blast tore him apart. The sound of it reverberated throughout the tunnels, as did the roar of whatever it was Grimdalf had set free.

The thing from behind the door was free and Dwarfs were dying. Even when they finally tunnelled out of the earth, the killings continued during the night. In time, fewer died and some Dwarfs were even allowed to return to their fellows with tales of a gigantic creature from the Darkness. With their Dwarfking dead (one of the beast�s first victims), the remaining clan leaders selected a delegation to approach the creature in its lair to learn its intent. It told them that its name was Hashut, Father of Darkness, and that he would grant them great power if they worshipped him alone. Hashut told the Dark Lands Dwarfs that their Ancestor Gods abandoned them to the onslaught of Chaos. Should they refuse, promised Hashut, their lines would come to an end and their achievements would be forgotten.

A heated argument broke out between those who saw wisdom in Hashut�s words and those who saw forsaking the Ancestor Gods as the first step to damnation. At the height of the debate, weapons were drawn and Dwarf slew Dwarf. Seeing the fight from afar, Hashut granted sorcerous power to those elders who favoured him, tipping the battle in their favour. To honour their new god, the victors sacrificed many of their brethren to Hashut, while they gave others to him as slaves. Some of these he mutated into the beasts that serve him: the Great Taurus and Lammasu. Hashut also took the most ferocious fighters for his cause and shaped them into the Bull Centaurs, his distinguished servants. Lastly, the victorious clan elders were permanently rewarded with powerful sorcerous abilities, which they used to Hashut�s glory.

In a final desperate act against their now debased rulers, the remaining Runesmiths revolted against Hashut�s new order. But, the corruption of the Dark Lands Dwarfs had even affected the power of the Runesmiths. The battle raged for months, but the Sorcerer-Priests were too strong. The Runesmiths were broken and enslaved, while the more powerful among them were sacrificed to Hashut after several days of ritual torture. With the last vestiges of their former culture removed, the corruption of the Dark Lands Dwarfs was completed. Hashut rewarded them with tusks to mark them as his own, while he granted the most devout cloven hoofs and horns.

dedwrekka:

Hrmmm…the new dwarf books paints it in a different light. Rather than say that the Ancestor Gods were there, but ignored or cast out the Dawi Zharr, it mentions the Ancestor Gods as being fully physical at the time that the Dwarfs finally peek out into the now changed world.

Specifically, under “The Coming of Chaos” on page 6-7

The Dwarfs were not Defenceless. The ancient tales tell how Grungni taught them how to inscribe magical runs onto their weapons and armor. He armed Grimnir with two mighty axes and armor harder than the bones of mountains. From their underground strongholds, the armies of the dwarfs sallied forth to do battle against the horde of Chaos. Valaya protected the dwarfs against the dark magic of their enemies, and Grimnir slew many daemons with his axes.
then under “The Orphans” on page 7 it says
Their delvings were nowhere near as deep as the older holds in the Worlds Edge Mountains, and no Grimnir, Grungni or Valaya arose to lead them, or at least no heroes have been recorded. The corruption of these Dwarfs into Chaos Dwarfs is a constant omission in otherwise complete Dwarfen histories.
They weren’t the ancestor Gods at the time that Chaos swept the land and turned the Dwarfs of the Great Skull Land into Chaos Dwarfs, or at least the Chaos Dwarfs never new of them, nor rune magic before hand.

Balseraph:


Because of when chaos spilled across the old world. The Dwarfs didn't learn runecraft until they were taught it by Grungni, by that time the dwarfs of the great skull land, chaos dwarfs, were already corrupted. So the Chaos Dwarfs would have never learned to craft runes the way dwarfs did.


dedwrekka
ok, but if I good remember.. Dwarf use runes always..
also, before they go to skull land.. (maybe I mistake)

So why CD haven't got any "runesmiths" ?
Why can't use any.. corrupted runes?

This_Is_My_Boomstick!!:

its interesting because in the undead rulebook a couple back there was a magic sword iirc which was made by a dwarf runesmith corrupted by chaos - chaos runeblade i think

Ishkur Cinderhat:

Rune Lord Grimdalf the Grey
Is that his name - seriously? :D

torn:

I think that its fair to say that as chaos also use runes, then chaos dwarfs are going to use runes. They may not, of course, be the same type of rune as a regular dwarf rune, but could be magical in a different way.

In game - dwarf runes ability gives them basically a more varied magic item list, to compensate for the fact that they have no offensive magic of their own. It would be unfair for us to have both rune items and magic.

Balseraph:

In my knowledge…

Dwarfs are magic resistance in some %… - they have runes…

CD was

rewarded with powerful sorcerous abilities


and we can’t write:
It would be unfair for us to have both rune items and magic
Dwarfs are Dwarfs…

first have only runes and have resistance to magic

second gain magic power from his God , but runes also have by race… i think…

Nowhere is write so CD has lose their runes ability…

metro_gnome:

except in my quote above…

the ancestors turned their backs on the chaos dwarfs… and so they lost the power of runes…

Doogle:


ye gods no!
Grungi, Grimnir, and Valaya all abandoned us to the Chaos Incursion... or so sayeth Hashut...

time to dust off the WRPG "daemon prince" fluff...
"
In a final desperate act against their now debased rulers, the remaining Runesmiths revolted against Hashut�s new order. But, the corruption of the Dark Lands Dwarfs had even affected the power of the Runesmiths. The battle raged for months, but the Sorcerer-Priests were too strong. The Runesmiths were broken and enslaved, while the more powerful among them were sacrificed to Hashut after several days of ritual torture. With the last vestiges of their former culture removed, the corruption of the Dark Lands Dwarfs was completed. Hashut rewarded them with tusks to mark them as his own, while he granted the most devout cloven hoofs and horns.


metro_gnome
If this paragraph is straight out of the book, then it seems they had runesmiths.
But I prefer the seperation from our distant cousins. Makes the CD army interesting.

metro_gnome:

what odds…

we’ve thrown off the shackles of dwarfish dogma…

it part of our evolution…

torn:

Has anyone ever thought that maybe even if the dark land dwarfs had the power of magical runes, after they deserted grungi etc for hashut they may have lost the power of magical runes? They are magical after all, not some kind of science.

Xander:

So what book is that daemon prince fluff from? Was it published, or not? And if not, how did we get a hold of this? I am still trying to locate this fluff for my own collection.