[Archive] Spell selection

saurus:

With regards to cavalry in WHF the biggest disapointment has been that medium cavalry has been usually pretty useless. (there are ‘rare’ exceptions) The way the rules worked meant players either wanted fast cavalry or 2+/1+ save knights, with little in between these two areas. It would be nice to see medium cavalry as a decent choice in WHF.

Historically speaking, medium cavalry was an important flanking force, and the ‘modern’ idea of heavy cavalry did not start in Western Europe until the middle ages. The middle-east and east asia never developed such heavy knights and relied on medium cavalry as their shock troops.

To be fair to AGPO I do see his point, when hobgoblins are 2 points it is very difficult to compete with such cheap units when comparing points. Thats why I believe Skaven slaves are one of the best units in the game. Point for point you can get more than 25 hobgoblins for 1 Blood Knight. But as Germany showed in WWI and WWII, focussing elite shock units on one part of the line to punch through the enemy is how they should be used.

If 5 Blood Knights flank 100 Hobbos, they are not stubborn, they key is to get in the position to flank them and to do enough damage so their static res is nullified to the point that their chances of holding is low.

PS: wasnt this thread about magic or something…oh well…THREAD HIJACK!

Thommy H:

If 5 Blood Knights flank 100 Hobbos, they are not stubborn
I believe any unit with more ranks than the enemy counts as steadfast - they won't get a rank bonus, but they still have the ranks.

Shakhorth:

If 5 Blood Knights flank 100 Hobbos, they are not stubborn
I believe any unit with more ranks than the enemy counts as steadfast - they won't get a rank bonus, but they still have the ranks.


Thommy H
Thommy is correct, you can only take away the steadfast by having more ranks then the opponent. You do however take away the rank bonus they gain in combat resolution if you have atleast an extra rank. So in case of cav you need atleast 10 models alive at the end of the combat to take away the combat resolution rank bonus.

Thommy H:

Yeah, the common factor here is that cavalry needs ranks too. And isn’t that as it should be? I don’t think it’s right that five models - any five models - can rout a hundred in one charge. There’s no historical or logical basis for that. Doesn’t matter how many points you paid: cavalry just isn’t supposed to be that destructive.

saurus:

Ok I stand corrected, my apologies.

hmmmm, well if that is the case I can just see infantry taking over from the flanking role of cavalry, as it is cheaper in points to do so. I see cavalry being relegated to war machine hunting roles and perhaps monster killing. WHile ranked infantry are not as quick as cavalry, they are generally much cheaper in points and much more durable, and it may be possible that infantry will replace cavalry in competitive gaming in flanking roles.

Neil:

Sorry to drag this thread back on topic, but I am a little unclear about what happens with things like the loremaster rule that allow you to know all of the spells in a lore. For example I take a Vampire Lord with Forbidden Lore, so he knows all the spells from the Vampire Lore. I have second Lv 2 Vampire. Does Forbidden Lore count as an ability that allows me to circumvent the normal spell selection rules and duplicate spells? Or does my second vampire just get Raise the Dead (the signature spell) and Invocation of Nehek (the spell that is outside the Lore and all Vampires get automatically) and loose his third spell (even though he is Lv he gets 3 spells - Invocation plus 2 others). The second option is the way I am currently thinking.

What happens if its two Slann, one with the ability that gives him Loremaster, or an Empire army with Balthasar Gelt and a second Metal wizard?

slev:

As was espoused by GW recently, Foot beats Cav

Cav beats Monsters

Monsters beet Foot.

The removal of the charge ASF means that the charge is no-longer the sole deciding factor of 80% of combats, hence a unit’s full stat block is important. This is a brilliant move.

As to the question about Wampires, my understanding is that FL is an auto-buy of every spell and hence, those auto-spells wouldn’t count for the other Wampires.

Thommy H:

Loremaster is an example of a model having no choice about their spells, which is covered in the spell selection rules - i.e. it doesn’t affect the rules for doubles of spells.