[Archive] [split] Offensive Blunderbuss'

ZigZags:

Can I resurrect this thread given the new rules? I am planning on running 20 of these baddies in a 10x2 formation with the banner of swiftness. Thoughts? How do you field your Blunderbusses today?

Geist:

Zigzag you raised it so I will give my two bits on it.

First off if you want full effect you need no less than 10 more than minim, ie 30 per unit. Simple reasoning is, with such limited range you will take damage of some sort before the guns come into effect. So if you sit exactly on 20 you have great odds of never getting the reroll benefit, which is by far the saving grace of the 6pt per troop weapon.

Secondly, this will take time to make effective, again owning to the short range and slow movement of the dwarfs. Once you bring the guns into position you have to account for at least one turn of bad effect from the the guns. IE; you will count as having moved on the turn you reach position (in the offensive role that is) also you will have to expect one bad roll for the number of shots made. So expect that on that turn to do less damage. In fact it is when charged that a blunderbuss unit should shine. Most infantry will be shredded and light to medium cav will poof under a hail of buck-shot.

Getting back to the heart of this old thread, could you take more than one unit and make it work? Short answer is yes, long answer is no.

Short answer explained:

Two big bricks of 30 gun totting dwarfs will shred anything that dares to come close to them.

Long answer explained:

The point cost due to body size will be insane, expect at least 600pts per brick, more like closer to 634 - 700. So you will need alot of points to fit in 1200+ points of dwarven gun bunnies. Which in return means to change your over all build and play style. This will be a drastic over all change, lot less long range weapons or removing of heavy hitters. To avoid this problem you will need to increase your over all points level. In my area 2500 is the standard play list. Now I have found one exception which is 2 day tourny that will be played at 2800. Having said that I would not play two blocks of guns, why? Model count (new models to make) and I remain unsure of the worth of 2 bricks.

moses:

I´am not that experienced sofar. But in last game against deamons i used my 21 models and they killed a lot of deamons.

used them to secure a flank and they hold it. i never expected this.

especially on a charge they are devastatating.

i think a size of 24 would be pretty good on the cost side. set up 12 wide 2 deep.

30 if you have enough points.

i also thought that 10 or 12 without commandgroup would be usefull to protect your warmachines from small flanking/flying/fast/annoying units.

they are normally small and not well protected.

but never tried sofar.

moses

Da Crusha:

i also thought that 10 or 12 without commandgroup would be usefull to protect your warmachines from small flanking/flying/fast/annoying units.
they are normally small and not well protected.
but never tried sofar.

moses

moses
this is really interesting to me. especially since most people take fireglaives for this purpose. first of all the unit would have to have a musician so it can reform and still fire, pesky war machine hunter units are too maneuverable to leave this at home. I just made this chart to help us better compare the 2 units.
10 Blunderbuss            10 Fireglaives
190            cost          180
12"            range          18"
3      Ranged Strength     4
10-30        shots          10
X       Improved shot       -
3+ 6++   H+H armor       4+
3          H+H Strength     4

the information is still not thorough enough though, we have to take in to account the average removal rate with a given enemy and also factor in the range limitations. with the information as it stands fireglaives seem to be the better choice but blunderbuss should be capable of removing more wounds on average,... when it's in range. for example, against a T3 troop with light armour at 13" away (requiring blunderbuss to move forward and Fireglaives to stand still) Blunderbuss will cause an average of 5 wounds, while fireglaives will cause 2 wounds on average.

a line graph is really necessary to get the best perspective. as the blunderbuss' effectiveness changes with the number of shots being fired and of course it's limited range, we can't be absolutely sure which unit is a better choice with just the information I have provided.

zhatan87:

3 H+H Strength 4
4 H+H Strength 5 :)

Da Crusha:

3          H+H Strength     4
4          H+H Strength     5 :)


zhatan87
oh yeah, you're right. x.x

Jossy:

What about throwing hobgoblins into the mix?

You can get 40 of them for the same points, and just a few more and they have bows. They are superior for the support role IMO

Da Crusha:

What about throwing hobgoblins into the mix?

You can get 40 of them for the same points, and just a few more and they have bows. They are superior for the support role IMO

Jossy
hmm, interesting.

Da Crusha:

I just kept thinking about the best support unit and so began doing some number crunching and research on how to do line graphs. Here I have made a line graph to better visualize which unit is the best. The line graph shows the average number of wounds that each weapon will inflict on a toughness 3 foe with light armor standing 9" away. I chose 9 inches because it is the longest distance each of the weapons can shoot without negative modifiers. I chose T3 light armour because that is a common war machine hunter. Blunderbuss counts as firing 2 shots each.



after making this I kept thinking that the info still does not answer which weapon is the most effective shooting unit at 190 points, the minimum Blunderbuss size with mus. so I played with the info a little bit more and came up with this line graph. This next line graph answers which weapon is most effective as a support unit in shooting. again blunderbuss counts as firing 2 shots each. also you will notice I have listed the weapons to shoot further than their max range, this is because the unit can move forward and shoot.



even this graph only answers which weapon on average is best against T3 AS6+ foe. there are entirely too many different foes to list them all, but if any one has special requests I can adjust a few bits of data to accommodate. I made about 200 lines of data to make these line graphs. I hope you guys find it useful.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Very useful indeed, although one thing I would say is to edit the bows to be firing 20 shots - otherwise, the unit would be 19 models, lol :smiley:

EDIT: Or change it so that it’s 29 shots and haven’t moved (thus including the half ranks for volley fire).

Jossy:

Did you take into account there is a 1 in 6 chance you will have +1 to hit for the hobgoblins?

Abecedar:

@ Da Crusha… You are going to have to change your name to “Da Brain” or “Da Number Cruncha”.

Very interesting and I’m glad you took the time to do it for us. I like maths but most times it does my head in.

Da Crusha:

@hashut’s blessing: yeah I should do that. right now I have it so every model is shooting, so 19 model front rank. Ill change it to 29 models (front rank 10, second rank 10. back ranks 17 rounded up)

@Jossy: no I didn’t take into account the animosity at all. I don’t know how I would factor that in. so I guess the graph represents within 6" of a chaos dwarf unit.

@Abecedar: Da Number Cruncha, I like that one!

Da Crusha:

Here is the new chart with hobgoblins shooting in a more reasonable formation and I also included the +1 to hit from animosity.

Marduk:

Very nice analysis. The number crunching is fine but more important is having defined the model clearly. Thanks for the contribution.

Goltor Lintrepide:

That’s great work Da Crusha, thank you sire. :hat off

Da Crusha:

no problem guys, it’s my pleasure.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Much tidier and no need to bother with the Bloody Murder part - if you’ve got a static shooting force, you’d never be further than 6" from Chaos Dwarfs anyway, lol. What may be worthwhile is replacing it with a line for if the horde moves - 20 shots, but an additional 4" range.