Hi guys I wasn’t too sure where to place this but this seemed the reasonable choice.
I asked on the Forge World Facebook page about Cataclysm spells for the Lore of Hashut
Hi there. A quick question about the Chaos Dwarf list in the Tamurkhan book. Are you going to do any Storm of Magic Cataclysm spells for the lore of Hashut, and if so when would the lore be in ascendancy when you spin the dial?
And this is the response I got
Forge World
We’ve got no plans for a Cataclysm spell in this case, and the Lore of Hashut falls under the auspices of Dark Magic.
Actually, either Dark and High Magic are always ascendant (every Lore has one of them as a secondary). They don’t get as high a casting bonus for that, but counting as Dark Magic makes quite a significant difference to how the army plays in Storm of Magic games - particularly as Dark Magic gets the game-changing Oblivion cataclysm spell, which is the only thing that can destroy an Arcane Fulcrum.
For fear of sounding like a fool, do Chaos Dwarfs worship Chaos as such? As far as I gather they worship Chaos proper no more than the Dark Elves. maybe Dark Magic is appropriate after all.
For fear of sounding like a fool, do Chaos Dwarfs worship Chaos as such? As far as I gather they worship Chaos proper no more than the Dark Elves. maybe Dark Magic is appropriate after all.
Wifstrand
Hashut is a Chaos God. Just look at all the Chaos stars on their stuff...
Hashut is a Chaos God, but his domain is Darkness and Corruption. As such, Dark Magic is perfectly suited. Especially since that is what destroys a fulcrum! Who better than the Chaos God of Darkness and Corruption to destroy a fulcrum! It’s . . . perfect!
Hashut is a Chaos God, but his domain is Darkness and Corruption. As such, Dark Magic is perfectly suited. Especially since that is what destroys a fulcrum! Who better than the Chaos God of Darkness and Corruption to destroy a fulcrum! It's . . . perfect!
RTMaitreya
I don´t think it is meant for us to use dark magic cataclysm spells, it´s just that the lore of hashut falls under the same ascendency as dark magic.
For fear of sounding like a fool, do Chaos Dwarfs worship Chaos as such? As far as I gather they worship Chaos proper no more than the Dark Elves. maybe Dark Magic is appropriate after all.
Wifstrand
Hashut is a Chaos God. Just look at all the Chaos stars on their stuff...
Thommy H
I think both points stand. Hashut is a chaos god, but chaos dwarf society is just as independant from chaos as are the dark elves - the difference being the chaos dwarfs extensive trade relations, but these are a race specific trait for their own benefit.
I think Rabotak has it right we don’t get to use the dark magic cataclysm spell just the 3+ casting bonus when Dark magic comes up on the wheel.
Also don’t get started on the whole Khaine/Khorne issue there are a few Dark Elf (Eldar) players out there who get really hot under the collar about that
Though I agree with Khedyarl all the warhammer gods are part of chaos.
Not sure what the logic of it counting as Dark Magic is, to be honest. It would make more sense to count it as Chaos Lores for ascendancy, at least.
Thommy H
i can imagine the reason for this being the lack of cataclysmic spells, so at least the odds of getting ascendency are increased. i believe it's more a technical than fluffnical issue.
Actually, Dark Elves don’t worship Chaos in any guise any more (excepting Storm of Magic and Morathi), so the comparison between Chaos Dwarfs worshipping one of the 8 points on the star and the Dark Elves worshipping an Elven god are a little moot.
If they use the auspices of Dark Magic, it means they get the +3 to cast when it is ascendant - otherwise they’d have said the auspices and the spells/Cataclysm spells. They additionally state specifically that the Lore of Hashut has no Cataclysm spells - ergo, no Dark Magic Cataclysm spells.
Finally, I also disagree with with Dark Magic and think rather than just Chaos (I.E. when Heavens is ascendant), it should be Tzeentch (+4 to cast with Metal, +4 to cast with Heavens - metal because of our role as armourers of the dark powers and Heavens because of its affinity with the three Lores of Chaos and Hashut is a minor Chaos power).
Personally, I’d house rule it to be a secondary lore of Fire and Metal, so you get +4 when they’re ascendant like a normal secondary lore, and either come up with your own general “Chaos Dwarf” cataclysm spells that all Chaos Dwarf casters use regardless of Lore (like Bretonnians, Wood Elves, Lizardmen Slann, etc.) or use the Fire ones. Dark Magic just makes no sense as far as I can tell - you might as well count it as the Lore of the Wild or one of the Skaven lores.
They additionally state specifically that the Lore of Hashut has no Cataclysm spells - ergo, no Dark Magic Cataclysm spells.
Hashut's Blessing
That's not what they stated; they stated the Lore of Hashut has no Cataclysm Spells. I myself figure that's why they shoved it in under Dark Magic - to give it an Ascendancy bonus and a set of Cataclysm spells: two birds with one stone.
I agree with what ThommyH said: giving it secondary Ascendancy instead of tertiary would be better, and making it Fire and Metal would be the logical choice. After all, all the other racial Lores have two possibilities for Ascendancy as well. This doesn't solve the issue of no Cataclysm spells, however. I guess that's why they went with Dark Magic.
Also don't get started on the whole Khaine/Khorne issue there are a few Dark Elf (Eldar) players out there who get really hot under the collar about that ;)
Vogon
Khaine is just the original incarnation of Khorne, and has been since time eternal. . . It is Khaine's spirit that ultimately was forged into Khorne when humans finally arrived to give him "real" power. Khorne is Khaine is Khorne. They are aspects of the same god. This is canon, agreed by all. What is there to discuss?
"Oh, I'm an Elf, so my aspect of Khorne is much more important than that which you pitiful humans revere. . . Khaine is lord of violence and murder with style. . . Khorne is just violence and bloodshed without style. You are therefore inferior."
Please. Elf players are such wankers about their ascendent times. Well, I got news for ya, the CHAOS DWARVES are now in ascendency!
