The Black Hammer states “Chaos Dwarf” only. Now, my first reaction when I saw that was it excluded Hobgoblin Khan’s. I have a tournament organizer telling me that it excludes Taur’ruks as well because he’s a Bull Centaur. However, under the Bestiary under Bull Centaurs it doesn’t say just “Bull Centaurs” it states “Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaurs”. Even the description of them depicts them being a very speicial type of Chaos Dwarf. In our army list for characters none of them show list them as chaos dwarfs or non-chaos dwarfs. None of them have a title saying Chaos Dwarf Infernal Castellen for example, it just says Sorcerer-Prophet, Daemonsmith Sorcerer, Infernal Castellen, Bull Centaur Taur’ruk and Hobgoblin Khan. What does “Chaos Dwarf only” even mean? What am I missing here? Anything?
Chaos dwarfs are stunties with high hats 2 arms and 2 legs. Bull Centaurs are not Chaos Dwarfs, they are in the army list but they are a differnt sort of critter.
Chaos dwarfs are stunties with high hats 2 arms and 2 legs. Bull Centaurs are not Chaos Dwarfs, they are in the army list but they are a differnt sort of critter.
Gunnerson
"Into each successive generation of Chaos Dwarfs a handfull of new 'blessed' kin has been born - usually to the death of their unfortunate dams, and such children are given over immediately to the Sorcereres to serve in turn."
Seems that Bull Centaurs are simply a mutated Chaos Dwarf, not an entirely different species like Hobgoblins are. I've been playing Chaos Dwarfs since 1994 and Bull Centaur characters have always been able to take Chaos Dwarf magic items.
As an occasional organizer unless I saw a Faq I’d rule aganst it.
Chaos dwarfs are stunties with high hats 2 arms and 2 legs. Bull Centaurs are not Chaos Dwarfs, they are in the army list but they are a differnt sort of critter.
Gunnerson
"Into each successive generation of Chaos Dwarfs a handfull of new ‘blessed’ kin has been born - usually to the death of their unfortunate dams, and such children are given over immediately to the Sorcereres to serve in turn."
Seems that Bull Centaurs are simply a mutated Chaos Dwarf, not an entirely different species like Hobgoblins are. I’ve been playing Chaos Dwarfs since 1994 and Bull Centaur characters have always been able to take Chaos Dwarf magic items.
Army Builder is just some other player interpretation. IMO, if they wanted a BC to have it then they would have said "Not for Hobgoblins" instead.
cornixt
Hard to tell. My problem is history. Unless my memory is failing, I used to give the hammer to my Bull Centaur Lord or Hero all the time. If I recall, there were some items that greenskins couldn't use but the the other characters could (regular and bull centaur chaos dwarfs). I just figured the same convention was being followed. It's not a huge deal, but just seems odd to me.
Fluff wise it is complete legal. Rule wise I dont know, I’d say yes but other say no. (and please keep army builder out of this, in all my experience as a warhammer player army builder as proven utterly annoying.)
Why dont you ask Forge Wold in a mail? they have the tendency to answer questions and then we all know for sure (:
Fluff wise it is complete legal. Rule wise I dont know, I'd say yes but other say no. (and please keep army builder out of this, in all my experience as a warhammer player army builder as proven utterly annoying.)
Why dont you ask Forge Wold in a mail? they have the tendency to answer questions and then we all know for sure (:
Bolg
I just sent off the question. They're usually pretty quick in replying.
I once saw someone say the following and I feel it describes this situation well, "Fluff aint rules."
Gunnerson
Unfortunatly, the "rules" in this case, as in many cases, aren't as black and white as you seem to think they are. Sometimes fluff is all you have to fall back on. There's nothing in the army list that states what is type=chaos dwarf and what isn't. Bull Centaurs are part of the chaos dwarf race. They have the same DNA. Hobgoblins don't. So what "category" do Bull Centaurs fall into? Chaos Dwarfs or Non-Chaos Dwarfs?
IMO it should have been “Yes allowed” because they are a special/blessed chaos dwarf, but now with them also being turned into monstrous beasts I just don’t know.
Here’s the response from Forge World. I guess the Taur’ruk can’t use it. Oh well, would have been a good combo.
Forge World (UK)
Hi there.
The restriction for the use of this magic items was put in place as our rules writers felt that a Bull Centaur character with the Black Hammer would be too powerful. As such it can only be used by Chaos Dwarf characters.
Here was my question:
Hello. In the magic items section the Black Hammer of Hashut states that it’s Chaos Dwarf only. Can the Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaur Taur’ruk use it? I’ve always considered Bull Centaurs to be a part of the Chaos Dwarf race while Greenskins obviously are not. In the past, only greenskin characters were prohibited from using Chaos Dwarf only magic items but there’s confusion as to whether or not this also means Bull Centaurs. Thanks.
I am kinda surprised as many here thought as they did. To me it is very clear that the book, both Throne and the rule book make clear that there are unit types, and the type of unit that may use that item is called chaos dwarf. In the Throne book, it very clearly states that taruk is unit type bull centaur, not chaos dwarf. But thats just my two cents.
I am kinda surprised as many here thought as they did. To me it is very clear that the book, both Throne and the rule book make clear that there are unit types, and the type of unit that may use that item is called chaos dwarf. In the Throne book, it very clearly states that taruk is unit type bull centaur, not chaos dwarf. But thats just my two cents.
Geist
Where in the Throne book does it clearly state what is unit type = Chaos Dwarf and what isn't? In the Bestiary, under the description of Chaos Dwarfs there's a pretty decent decription of the Chaos Dwarf race and that Chaos Dwarfs have special rules such as "Contempt", "Resolute", and "Relentless". Then the following pages go on to explain in detail the "types" of Chaos Dwarfs, such as The Infernal Guard, Chaos Dwarf Deamonsmiths and Sorcerers, Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaurs and Chaos Dwarf War Machines. It isn't until you get to Hobgoblins that the word "Chaos Dwarf" is gone from the title. I think it's easy to assume, like I did, that Bull Centaurs were a type of Chaos Dwarf. Part of my problem is that I've been playing this army since the beginning of time and Bull Centaur Character have always been able to take "Chaos Dwarf" only magic items. About the only real clue is that under the Bull Centaur section, they don't have the special rules "Resolute" or "Relentless", only "Contempt". So I guess you're supposed to interpret that in order to be Unit Type=Chaos Dwarf you have to have all 3 special rules. In the Army List Section, none of the Characters have Chaos Dwarf listed anywhere. There's nothing under Sorcer-Prophet for example that says Type=Chaos Dwarf. All it has is a list of Special Rules that do include Resolute, Relentless and Contempt. Basically you have to go back to the bestiary and try and figure out what they meant by "Chaos Dwarf" only for the Black Hammer.