[Archive] The Redundancy of Orcs and Goblins

Auretious Taak:

So, just MHO, but the Orcs and Goblins taken as a Special Unit are quite redundant. Anything Orcs can do, Black Orcs can do better…so they can’t shoot, but for less points Hob Gobs also have Bowss and BS 3 so Hob Gobs are better then Orcs here. Goblins? Whhy take goblins? We can’t take Night goblins or goblin wolf riders et al, just plain goblins (I’m sure this is right, at the same time we can’t take savage orcs can we?). Goblins are 3 pts whereas Hob Gobs are 2 pts, and the Hob Gobs have an extra WS to boot (they may lose a pt of I but meh)!

So why do people take Orcs and Goblins in their armies? I’m curious to know. Tactics, thoughts, fluff, what?

Auretious Taak.

Ancient History:

Well, Black Orcs are pricey but decent troops and have Armed to da Teef.

Goblins are actually cheaper archers than Hobgoblins, but have to be taken in bigger blocks and Fear Elves,

Orc Boyz are effectively medium infantry (if you accept Hobgoblins as light infantry and Chaos Dwarf Warriors as heavy infantry); I don’t see them getting much play unless actual Chaos Dwarf and Hobgoblin models are scarce. You can also upgrade them to Big 'Uns and give them a magic banner.

Orc Arrer Boyz are essentially a (slight) upgrade to Hobgoblins with bows - again, I don’t see these guys getting much play unless you just don’t have a lot of Chaos Dwarf models and need to fluff out your forces with O&Gs.

grunts:

if you have an extra special choice, gobbos with spears are a nice choice over hobbos.

cornixt:

0-1 Black Orcs

0+ Orcs

Bladed Raven:

You also have to keep your theme in mind.

I would take black orks because they have a much needed 8in charge range and are worth committing to a charge which hobbos typically are not.

Plus, hobbos can be considered medium infantry because they are cheap even with Hand Weapon, Shield, and Light Armour. This combo gives them a 4+ when fighting from the front. When supported by orks or preferably dwarfs I have seen them be quite effective.

Hashut’s Blessing:

Also, Orc archers are 1 point more expensive than hobgob archers, get +1T and light armour as well as getting +1S in the first round of any combat :stuck_out_tongue: (To add something not mentioned.)

Willmark:

Some of it has to do with the army list from 4th edition… which is basically what we have now. In other words it really hasn’t changed even thou the units values in terms of playability. If anything goblins should be Core. I mean come on? Special?

AGPO:

Back in the days of fifth edition, your list was split into Characters, Units, Monsters, War Machines and Allies. Orcs, Goblins et al all came under units along with Chaos Dwarfs and Hobbos. When ravening hordes was released, it was supposed to allow you to field complete 5th edition armies with sixth edition rules. Thus old units had to be divided into core special and rare. Obviously the chaos dwarfs didn’t have many units that could be assigned to special in the same way as Empire or chaos did say. Thus all greenskins apart from hobbos weremade special to bulk out that section of the list. At the time it was a temporary measure…