Thommy H:
If the intention of this production is for it to have some measure of mainstream success, then not centring it around Space Marines would be completely insane. Space Marines are 40K. They may not be the most compelling element of the setting as a whole, but they’re clearly the most iconic part of it. You couldn’t do an introduction to the 40K universe without basing it around Space Marines.
zobo1942:
I think that the ‘setting’ of 40K is not defined by the space marines - it is defined by mankind’s struggle against ‘Chaos’ as a spiritual force or temptation. As such, I think a perfectly fascinating way to look into the 40K universe would a science fiction drama, but utilizing the 40K universe/backstory/etc… as an interesting setting. It would most probably be a good deal more cerebral that ‘Look, someone who disagrees with me! Blast them!! Why? You don’t ask why - pull the trigger!’ To me, that’s just porn.
I think an inquisition-themed film could show both sides of the order/hyper-fascist Imperium versus the anarchy of chaos… and even show why both sides could be desireable - in some ways, in some situations. An entire film of an inqusitor in a library, researching, and hunting for truth would be excellent (I think).
To me, the most iconic and defining image of 40K is that of a single person making a choice between equally undesirable options, and why they make that choice. Would it be a financially successful film? I have no way of even guessing - I just know I’d want to watch it.
Thommy H:
Yes, but if you’ve never heard of 40K before none of what you said makes any sense.
That’s why Dawn of War was a RTS game involving Space Marines killing stuff, rather than a Bioshock-esque horror game about the existential fear of the encroaching forces of entropy on an already uncaring universe.
zobo1942:
I think the entire setting coud be introduced circumstantially, and it would make sense… well, as much sense as 40K makes, anyway. I didn’t know anything about the ‘Star Wars’ universe until I saw the movie - and it made perfect sense, even though everything wasn’t defined. I hope audiences haven’t become so lazy that they need to have everything simplified to the lowest common denominator. Maybe I’m overly optimistic, but I still think that most people who watch a film want to take the time to think, relate and learn while they experiece a film. Whether or not that’s true of the 14 year old target audience of a 40K Space Marine movie, who can say. Probably not, unfortunately.
Character choices are, in my opinion, what make interesting films - not whose the yard they’re playing in. In my mind, the setting isn’t the focus, the characters are. Enough of the environment they’re in can be exposed to make it interesting. I’d watch a child custody battle in the 40K universe and although it might seem bizarre at first, it would still make sense because it’s not only the setting, it’s about the characters in it.
After the original Star Wars film came out, scores of rip-off films were released that attempted to cash in on it’s success. They were nearly all terrible. Why? Because they thought that the setting that the story took place in was the most important part (ie. Ooo! Outer space! Space ships! Laser guns! Wowee!) when the fact is that a good story is complimented and enriched by setting, not defined by it. Space ships, lasers, daemons and space marines are interesting, but without the story or characters to back it up, you’d have nothing but a good-looking blow-up doll.
I’m still glad they’re doing a feature length film - no matter the choices they make about content or character. If it does well, subsequent installments could only get better and may allow them the freedom to try something that may be a little more interesting to me. I’ll certainly watch it when it is released.
Thommy H:
I didn't know anything about the 'Star Wars' universe until I saw the movieBut the Star Wars franchise is 99% the movies... Watching A New Hope is how you're supposed to be introduced to the universe. 40K is a setting that already exists, and it's one which is not immediately accessible, even when playing the game for the first time. It's potentially quite immersive, complicated and non-intuitive (there are no clear cut heroes, it's is a cross between sci-fi and fantasy, there are a lot of mythological references, it's intentionally over the top, etc. etc.) and if the object of this movie is to introduce people to it (and it must be) then you don't do that by pitching straight for the darkest, grittiest corner of it. No one's going to "get" 40K if the first thing they see is some incredibly dark, gothic horror adventure that doesn't even involve any spaceships or guns or aliens. That's not "40K". It might be the most interesting part of the universe, but so what? They need to be promoting the most recognisable hook they can with this project, and that means Space Marines, and it probably means Ultramarines too.
zobo1942:
I think introducing the 40K universe through the eyes of a citizen - civil servant of the imperium, a line worker, etc… would work just fine.
Chaos is introduced (cult?), law is introduced (Adeptus Arbites), which can’t really handle it. Inquisition is introduced, investigation ensues, philosophy expanded, marines introduced as ‘seat of evil’ is ‘cleansed’. Bang. Print it. There’s all sorts of stuff which would be completely unnecessary to explain… After all, it’s only 90 minutes. But, one of the great things about taste in films (and stories, for that matter) is everyone likes something different.
The trailer is a disappointment, and it probably will be lousy - but, it depends what you’re expecting. “The Brain that Wouldn’t Die” is a fun movie to watch, but I’m sure some people consider it crap. Hopefully, they got inspired by “The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra” and then we could all have a good laugh.
I’m still looking forward to chugging a beer everytime someone says “For the Emperor!” - even though I expect to fall over after about fifteen minutes.
GRNDL:
The movie isn’t a movie for the sake of art, its a marketing tool, plain and simple. Its only purpose is to drive interest for 40k’s trademark Space Marines and GW took the cheapest way to do it: Direct to DVD, cheaply animated CGI. I don’t think it even has motion capture, judging from the robotic way the characters move. Space Marines are the most easily recognizable, iconic designs of 40k and GW is hoping this will translate into sales.
zobo1942:
Dan Abnett is listed as the sceenwriter - I’ll certainly watch it now. I’ve enjoyed the 40K books of his I’ve read (Eisenhorn Trilogy & Ravenor Trilogy - and one of the Horus Heresy books) so, I’m definitely going to see it now.
Kind of a pleasant surprise!
Thommy H:
The movie isn't a movie for the sake of art, its a marketing tool, plain and simple. Its only purpose is to drive interest for 40k's trademark Space Marines and GW took the cheapest way to do it: Direct to DVD, cheaply animated CGI. I don't think it even has motion capture, judging from the robotic way the characters move. Space Marines are the most easily recognizable, iconic designs of 40k and GW is hoping this will translate into sales.Exactly.
GRNDL
Grimstonefire:
Vaguely on topic, but I think the best film GW could ever make would be the ending of the horus heresy. They’d have to have a fair build up to the big battle (siege of the palace), to show the war raging elsewhere around the world.
Probably way too much for one film and it would be very expensive…
Thommy H:
I always thought that pretty much the only way to really do the setting justice would be to film the entire Horus Heresy. But no one would ever watch it and, judging from what I know of the Black Library novels, it would be god awful anyway.
Grimstonefire:
Filming the entire horus heresy would be huge. But imo they wouldn’t need to do the whole thing to do it justice.
Something that would have been interesting is telling the story from the point of view of a blood angels recruit as he gets transformed into a space marine then fights (as a scout) in the battles, leading up to the final battle.
Thommy H:
Nah, you gotta go big. You couldn’t have done Lord of the Rings from the perspective of one of the Riders of Rohan. Given that the whole idea of filming the entire Heresy would be to establish the complicated backstory of the setting, you’d have to do it in a way that told the whole story - Sanguinius, The Emperor and Horus would have to be the main characters.
Fallen246:
Nah, you gotta go big. You couldn't have done Lord of the Rings from the perspective of one of the Riders of Rohan. Given that the whole idea of filming the entire Heresy would be to establish the complicated backstory of the setting, you'd have to do it in a way that told the whole story - Sanguinius, The Emperor and Horus would have to be the main characters.But there's so much else going on at the same time as that battle - I think it'd have to be a multiple-climatic end movie scenario, with the Dark Angels Primarch and his second in command both sverely wounded, Leman Russ chasing the Thousands sons Primarch (I think it was them anyways) into the warp, and with The Emporer and his final battle with Horus, with a fade out and transition to the emporer being plugged into the throne, with some kind of monologue blah blah blah.
Thommy H
Blue in VT:
I think it would have been interesting to have the story told from an Imperial Guardsman point of view…raw and gritty…the Space MArines could have still been a huge part of it…the shiny heroes coming in to save the day with their fancy armor and mad skillz…It would be easier to relate to a guardsman than it is to a SM.
Either way…I’ll probably still watch it…When I can sneak it past the wife!
Cheers,
Blue
zobo1942:
Maybe the best way to illustrate and attempt to explain the bizarre ‘hyper-facsist theocracy’ which is the Imperium is to illustrate it as a reaction to the emerging and increasingly prevalent effect the chaos powers have on the citizens of the imperium - emerging psychic powers, posession, daemonic manifestation, etc… and humanity’s reaction to it.
I guess I’m the only one who thinks that the space marine/heresy part of the 40K universe - and even the Emperor, who now seems to be essentially a psychic night-light - is only a peripheral part of why the Imperium is in the state it is in, which is the result of the chaos incursion into realspace through the medium of an emerging psychic humanity. Sure, the space marine/heresy it’s an important part - but it would be like trying to explain and illustrate the structure and history of our banking and investment system on order to make people better understand the movie ‘Wall Street’ - unnecessary, and wouldn’t work in a film.
Maybe a complilation film (like 1981’s ‘Heavy Metal’) would be an interesting way to introduce the universe to a new audience… That way, everyone could get their ‘bit’ in - an ‘everyman’ segment, an ‘imperium meets lost settlement world’ segment, a space marine segment, an inquisition segment, etc…
Thommy H:
zobo, everything you’re saying is correct - if you want people to really get the universe then, yes, some deep, horror-tinged psychological, sci-fi epic would be the way to go. But no one is going to want to watch that. No one is going to invest the necessary time and effort into understanding what is, essentially, an advertisement for toy soldiers. It would be an immense waste of resources and, frankly, they wouldn’t have the money to do it in the first place.
Want people to be interested in 40K? You show them Space Marines, not Sisters of Battle. That’s because more people play Halo than enjoy discussing how the best intentions can be subverted into theocratic fascism on a huge scale. Also, the whole business is such a thinly-veiled parody of Catholicism that it would probably offend everyone.
zobo1942:
I don’t know anything about film marketing, and given what movies seem to be successful I’d have an awful lot to learn. But, I do agree with what you’ve said as well - if you’re making a commercial, then space marines absolutely are the way to go.
However, sadly, I think showing a PG-13 audience a bunch of chicks in metal corsets with guns blasting daemons and/or aliens into charred pulp would be depressingly successful, especially if there was a post-combat shower scene.
EDIT: Sadly, I’d probably watch it too… 
Fequiil:
However, sadly, I think showing a PG-13 audience a bunch of chicks in metal corsets with guns blasting daemons and/or aliens into charred pulp would be depressingly successful, especially if there was a post-combat shower scene.lolz.
EDIT: Sadly, I'd probably watch it too... ;)
zobo1942
nitroglysarine:
Wow, never thought of Sisters of Battle as viable perve material.
thanks for destroying another part of my childhood 