[Archive] Units of 10 naked hobgoblins?

Groznit Goregut:

Does anyone use units like this? I know that everyone feels 20 is more threatening, but sometimes you just want something out there as bait or an ultra cheap flanker. 10 is cheaper than 20 by half, but will still lure frenzied creatures, take quarters, guard war machines, etc.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

Better to have the Hobgoblins with clothes on. :smiley:

Well, so far I only have 10 painted, but I think it would be better to have them in larger numbers.

Ancient History:

Well, with ten models you usually get two ranks (5x2) so that you can get the full advantage of the rank bonus; though I know some people like to go for three ranks (3x3+1) to minimize flank/rear exposure (I would not generally consider this a terrible concern). Besides the extra unit strength, twenty models in four ranks (5x4) gives the full +3 rank bonus to combat (and hey, nekkid hobbos need all the bonuses they can get).

Groznit Goregut:

I know that a unit of 20 can be a throw away unit or actually try to fight something. The idea of 10 hobgoblins with nothing but a hand weapon is that it is only a throw away unit. It is only there to bait and be destroyed.

If it doesn’t get to be a bait unit, then maybe it’s there for table quarters. I mean, if you castle all in one corner, you can stick one of these guys in the other corner. If the enemy actually sends someone after it, then they are wasting points to go kill a 20 pt unit! If they don’t go after it, it can capture 100 pts for table quarters. Or, it can move into another quarter and try to contest it. Either way, it could be a really cheap unit that you put way out of the way and no matter what happens, it will probably at least earn it’s points!

Valendr:

Well, I played a few proxy games and on one flank I corner up my army, then on the other I put two units of 10 Hobgoblins and one of my bolt throwers. All three of the units are cheap and can get flank shots on knights and stuff, and cap a table corner for only 70 points. The hobgoblins bait and flee to protect the thrower, and it has actually saved it a few times.

qwe50:

10 are good for redirecting, meat screen and flee trap.

Loki:

I use a unit of 10 in my 2000 point army with nothing on them , i just use they to draw out charges then flee and try to rally them next turn to do the same again , i even got them in to combat once with a organ gun which they killed and oven ran, but i always try and get the little guys killed if i do that i know its been a good game

Ubertechie:

The trouble with units of 10 is twofold

1: They are very easy to panic - kill 3 and its panic test time - that can easily be achieved with a single fireball thus they are taken out of the game

2: They are usually ignored - unless you stuff them right into the face of your opponent (and he is unlikely to allow you to do this) he will just ignore them (and rightly so)

I only ever use untis of 20 and I use 3 of them - they have allways performed well and invariably end up destroyed at the end of the game but that means that my other units of more importance have not been shot / magicked / charged and have achieved what i want them to.

However everyone plays in a different style so some people may have better experiences of using small units

Alan the evil:

10 are good for diversionary tactics (I don’t going to repeat them …)

20 are good for tryng to stop the enemy: usually 3 ranks are enough to stop ordinary units (mainly if we can use general Ld)…

using a kind of unit instead then another depends on strategy plane, in my opinion… Both are usefull and we can even use a mix of them

Maul:

I usually field two units of 10 to make sure I claim my corner and to advance to the far corner of the board, trying to avoid in combat. I can not tell you how many times these units have claimed a board corner for me 20 points can get you 100 points quite easily.

Other then that, I take a big unit of 30 with musician. That is 70 points. I put that near the general. They hardly every win combat on wounds, but they have three ranks and weight. If they loose combat, they are on ld 10. If they die, no standard is lost and I am out 70 points. I have held-up 8 dryads for 4 rounds of combat, I have run down trolls, I have broken skaven clan rats. I just love what 70 points gets me. At games between 1000 points and 1500 points I will be experimenting with two units like this in my four local escalation league games this month.

theblackmage:

tha problem with 10 hobbos is that you have 3 casualties before you start taking panic tests on ld6, which gives you a 15/36 chance of passing, before the unit flees, potentialy dragging other, more vital units with it.

not too bad when you have an ld10 general nearby, but amost disastorous in other cases, and a

Groznit Goregut:

If someone spends one round to shoot a Fireball at the hobgoblins, I would say that they are earning their points! Any attention that is given to them means they have earned their points. If you play it right, you can even have them flee in the direction of the general and rally with his LD 10.

Sometimes fleeing is not the best answer. If you tilt your hobgoblins, when the enemy charges, they will show their flank. When the hobgoblins are destroyed, enemy frenzied troops will have to overrun. When they do so, if you angled your hobgobs correct, the enemy will present you with a nice flank for charging!

If you bait a unit properly, you are trying to get them in charge range or set up for a flank charge. Or even a crossfire of blunderbuss units. Even if the 10 guys are killed, they did their job. I mean, it’s only 20 pts!

Even if they are ignored, they can get or contest table quarters! 20 pts can get you 100! Just like Maul said.

They can be great for deployment to put down as trash without giving away your deployment idea. CD seem to have small armies compared to others and everyone knows what you are going to do by the time they have 1/3 of their army down.

I’m starting to really like the idea of these guys.

Ubertechie:

This is another of thoose personal choice one s- however to me a unit of 10 looks plain wrong - hence I use units of 20

theblackmage:

gronzit: hehe, something I have to point out. those hobboes are awesome at causing panic in your own units because it’s highly unlikely that they will be in the generals ld bubble for a few reasons

1)thier faster: it makes a big change, it realy does.

2) if you put this useless unit (IE: it will never do anything, and if it takes 1 casualty it is fine to be ignored.) in the LDbubble, it hits the other units

3) there probably gonna be holding table quaters

and even on ld10 (relying on the fact your general is still alive) you have a 1 in 12 chance of failing your panic test, before I throw in modifiers to your ld (doom and darkness, or doom totem ect), and if your failing a panic test caused by a little squirt unit like hobboes your gonna want to slap yourself.

and on the points thing. its all comes down to wining, if I can do it with a few shots rather than a protracted slugfest with your elite units, then damn well I will:hat off

Sometimes fleeing is not the best answer.  If you tilt your hobgoblins, when the enemy charges, they will show their flank.  When the hobgoblins are destroyed, enemy frenzied troops will have to overrun.  When they do so, if you angled your hobgobs correct, the enemy will present you with a nice flank for charging!  
with m6, I doubt it, and anyone who left the bbs alive by this point deserves to be slapped anyway.

Groznit Goregut:

@theblackmage: When I think of small units of hobgoblins, I don’t think of using many other hobgoblins. So, when I think of these hobgoblin units breaking, I don’t see many other units breaking at all. Remember, dwarfs won’t run when hobs break. So, even when they do break (and they will. I play OnG and I am used to crummy Ld) it shouldn’t have that great an impact on the rest of my lines.

There is a great general on Da Warpath (OnG forum) that says that successful greenskin strategy is about finding creative ways to get your own units killed to further your cause. I say this especially is true for Chaos Dwarfs in regards to hobgoblins! There are a ton of strategies to be used. There are “speed bump” units, or re-directors, or distractors, or even table quarter grabbers.

I also don’t understand your point about frenzied units with M6. Are you saying that things with a 3d6 pursuit roll won’t get trapped? Yes, I can agree with that, but even then, you can trap a unit in the corner where it has to spend a round or two turning around by destroying and then overrunning into the corner. For any frenzied infantry, you can easily set up sacrificial hobgob units to be defeated in combat and break, which sets you up for a great counter-charge. Minotaurs HAVE to not pursue as they eat the dead, which is another creative way you can throw a small unit of hobgoblins in front of them, but in charge range for your troops.

Border Reiver:

Depends on what I want the unit to do.

10 naked hobgoblins = bait, or the distraction

20 hobgoblins = bait + other uses

Which unit I use depends on what I need it to do, and what other units I take.

Groznit Goregut:

Depends on what I want the unit to do.

10 naked hobgoblins = bait, or the distraction
20 hobgoblins = bait + other uses

Which unit I use depends on what I need it to do, and what other units I take.

Border Reiver
I completely agree. When I first came to this site, though, I only heard people talking about 20 naked hobgoblins. I don't know why it took me so long, but I thought of a whole slew of uses for just 10.

Bassman:

Well, it really matters who you are fighting and how many points.

10 hobgoblins are thrown away units, useful agains frenzied troops and to release fanatics. It’s so funny move them full speed ahead to the biggest night goblin units and see what happens with fanatics :idea

I found 20 hobgoblins more useful, becasue the biggest issue with hobgoblins is clearly panic, when they panic they are never in general’s range and be sure they carry with them all units around.

With 10 hobgobbos you just have to kill 3 of them and they panic! Two units shooting at a couple of 10 hobgobbos units and you are sure your entire greenskin line panic each other messing your battle line.

I prefer to field not 20 but 25 units. I found 10 more pints is a cheap price to pay.

You are sure enemy needs 7 kills to painic them, this make sure they need at least two units shooting at them! 2 units wasted only to panic 50 points! If you have three of them marching to the enemy they have to use at least 3, maybe 4 shooting units dedicated! :o

Combined with earthshaker you are sure to silence their line.

25 means they almost always outnumber enemy, still have their 3 ranks and do not panic (well almost… :h ).

At 50 points they are still throw away units.

These are my two cents :hat off

Bassman

Maul:

Depends on what I want the unit to do.

10 naked hobgoblins = bait, or the distraction
20 hobgoblins = bait + other uses

Which unit I use depends on what I need it to do, and what other units I take.

Border Reiver
The 10 naked hobgoblin-OK so if I loose three I have to take a panic check, but you only have 20 points in a unit that can not only bait and distract, but can also claim a boar corner when your bolt thrower cannot.

The 20 naked hobgoblin unit, I still like 30 models, can hold up a unit like cheap zombies if you keep them near your general. They can hold-up another unit quite well with their meaty static combat resolution and high leadership of a general help them hang around.

Border Reiver:

True, like I said the other units in my army tend to dictate what size of hobgoblin unit(s) I take.