Something occured to me while using the FW models. As they are quite big, it is very easy to see over our troops and fire at something. However, they are quite big because they are modelled on steam carriages.
Having the warmachines mounted on a steam carriage is an option, which we should be paying for, if we want it. So, is using the extra height of the models without actually having invested the points in it cheating? Or is this offset by having a huge warmachine that can easily be targetted itself?
Yeah, LOS is generally swings and roundabouts so I don’t think it matters but, technically, they shouldn’t be on the carriages if you don’t pay the points and have an Iron Daemon to cart them around. Your opponent would need to be a real prick to try and enforce this though - it’s probably in the same category as not letting you use old big hats as Infernal Guard or something.
I think the same thing, the models are the official models for the war machines and not just steam carriage versions. but since I dont have plans on buying them Im going through the effort to convert my own to look the appropriate size. otherwise I feel like I would have an unfair advantage of having smaller models that could be harder to shoot and easier to maneuver.
Hooray for true LoS. This is one of the issues with 8th edition.
If I convert a Daemonsmith standing on a rock, my Daemonsmith can see better than yours - mine is now better, even though we paid the same points. This is stupid. But, it is the rules.
What it ultimately boils down to is that True LoS means you can actually draw uninterrupted LoS through the gaps between models, between the Destroyer’s legs, etc. So height of machines isn’t really that big a deal 99% of the time. It certainly isn’t worth people arguing over it.
And yes, bigger machines get seen easier, though the payoff of seeing more enemy targets is very much worth it.
It’s not worth losing sleep over, let alone converting non-carriage mounted versions of your war machines. The model is the model, it’s fine. No different to Warp Lightning Cannons being assembled in different ways, some of which are taller than others. And if Skaven can shoot over their own troops, we sure as hell are too.
Hooray for true LoS. This is one of the issues with 8th edition.
If I convert a Daemonsmith standing on a rock, my Daemonsmith can see better than yours - mine is now better, even though we paid the same points. This is stupid. But, it is the rules.
What it ultimately boils down to is that True LoS means you can actually draw uninterrupted LoS through the gaps between models, between the Destroyer's legs, etc. So height of machines isn't really that big a deal 99% of the time. It certainly isn't worth people arguing over it.
And yes, bigger machines get seen easier, though the payoff of seeing more enemy targets is very much worth it.
It's not worth losing sleep over, let alone converting non-carriage mounted versions of your war machines. The model is the model, it's fine. :) No different to Warp Lightning Cannons being assembled in different ways, some of which are taller than others. And if Skaven can shoot over their own troops, we sure as hell are too.
Baggronor
Cheating? Heck no, it's the rules true LoS makes it better for us, thats just how they are it's not like we are putting them on giant rocks or anything. Check out the warp lightning cannons in this picture
Some had e-mailed forgeworld about using old CD warmachines and they said that by all means use them as the warmachines off the carriage.
The forge world models seem clearly on the carriage, plus you have to BUY the steam carriage in the list. So if you’re paying points for a ‘better vantage point’ I don’t see how it can be seen as cheating, since you are quite clearing paying points for it. Plus, you’re making it easier to see or ‘hit’ you as well. If I throw a cannonball or stonethrower at you, you’re a bigger target!
So I don’t see anything wrong with it, I say go ahead and use it… though if you do, pay the proper upgrade.
Personally I’ll rock my old school warmachines sans carriage.
Some had e-mailed forgeworld about using old CD warmachines and they said that by all means use them as the warmachines off the carriage.
The forge world models seem clearly on the carriage, plus you have to BUY the steam carriage in the list. So if you're paying points for a 'better vantage point' I don't see how it can be seen as cheating, since you are quite clearing paying points for it. Plus, you're making it easier to see or 'hit' you as well. If I throw a cannonball or stonethrower at you, you're a bigger target!
So I don't see anything wrong with it, I say go ahead and use it... though if you do, pay the proper upgrade.
Personally I'll rock my old school warmachines sans carriage.
Swissdictator
I don't pay for the upgrade and I promise you 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of Chaos dwarf players don't pay for it either. If it was a big deal Forgeworld would of released an option without the carriage. To me it looks like one stable warmachine with a hook at the end....... Only one that looks like it's actually mounted on something is the dreadquake.
I don’t think its cheating it anyway, its just how it comes. Now basing a old Death Rocket on a large platform on a base eg a bolder/stone just to get LOS advances is cheating.
I prefere to think of the Steam carriage as something even bigger, ;) there has to be some purpose to it right? I would put them on this thing I made:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/EnderShadowKin/Chaos%20Dwarves/da52949f.jpg
if I ever played on a 10' long game table and need to assault something around turn 6, lol.
They aren't that tall anyway, and usually you are shooting over your own troops, which are short.