[Archive] vs Skaven **This message was automatically appended because it was too short.**

Singleton Mosby:

I am playing in a local league with my CD’s and next game will see me trying to weed out an army of Skaven. Now I’ve only played the rats once but that was with my Bretonnians and an utter disaster.

For this game I am thinking of fielding the following army (2500 pts)

- Lvl 4 sorcerer with Crown of command and Chalice

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- Castellan BSB with the Hammer of Hashut

- Lvl 1 with dispell scroll



2x 22 Blunderbusses, one with the banner of Eternal Flame

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2x Death Shrieker

1 Magma cannon

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K’daai Destroyer

5 Hobgolbin Wolfriders

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Now, what do you guys think? Would this work against hordes of ratmen?

Grimbold Blackhammer:

I think at 2500 points, 5 drops is not enough. But that’s an army I’ve always struggled against when playing Chaos Dwarves. I think I’d make one unit of 30 Blunderbuss and make a big unit of Hobgoblins with bows and shields. And I’d put the Chalice of Blood and Darkness on the level 1 and give the Sorcerer-Prophet the Dispel Scroll. If anyone else has a good solution for rats, let me know. I need a good exterminator!

Grimbold Blackhammer

Geist:

Khans on wolfs make for better redirects, no animosity. Also tougher, 2 magma cannons will work better. 22 is too small for blunderbuss units, you loose 2 guys you loose the benefit of the gun that matters most. 1 Big block of almost 40ish will make them tougher and wont loose blunderbuss rule as fast. With the left over points toss in 3 khans on wolves as fast mover redirects and war machine guards. Also something to think about is an iron demon. A skull cracker with hellbound will be a brute in a game against rats.

CopperPot:

Do you know what your coming up against unit wise.

Singleton Mosby:

Do you know what your coming up against unit wise.

CopperPot
Nope, I have no idea. All I know is she has won her previous game against Lizardmen and is said to have hordes of Skaven. Now, most things Skaven I can deal with. I am afraid of the doomweel, screaming bell and their magic however.

CopperPot:

Anything that causes Terror, Khan with mask of eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee would be a good start picking of units that have moved outside the leadership bubble.

Gutter Runners you have to watch out for this unit will be on top of your warmachines before you can blink go over to the Under Empire and take a look at there tactics againts gun lines and dwarves will be of great help.

Blackspine:

As much as I do like blunderbusses, I’m not sure if you can ‘out shoot’ them with Blunderbusses. They’ll do a bit of damage, but I think you can do more point for point with Magma cannons.

  I’d drop the blunderbusses and pick up More Chaos dwarfs with those points. Seeing as that’s a TON of points at 6 x 44.
The reason I say this, is that skaven will inevitably cast the dreaded 13th (worst spell in game). You’ll need combat units to hold up the slaves and Clan rats.

One death shrieker can take out a furnace/ bell pretty easily. After that, it’s only plunking a few points here or there.
  
Seeing as Skaven can shoot into combat w slaves, see if you can use the magma cannons (try to up to two of them) and these can just delete skaven hordes.

Not sure how the raiders will work. Maybe try 2 bare bones Khans? That way they can hunt warmachines / weapon teams…which will wreak havoc.

If you ever get a rear charge, and frontal, it’s a great way to target skaven chars. They’ll run to back, and you can then allocate on them.
  
good luck, Skaven can just march some of the most absurd units to war.

Try Ashstorm on the greyseer’s unit, so he can’t cast dreaded 13th and his units MIGHT go out of the ld bubble.

good luck

ps: curious as to how the Kadaai will fare v the ABom. I want to say ‘very well’. Just charge it and it’ll be losing pretty much every time.

propervillanz:

I would try to find the points to make that level 1 a level 2 and take lore of fire (hopefully you get ruby ring of rhuin or fulminating fire cage).

Death shriekers are awesome vs Skaven (5" template into a rat horde, yes please) plus with the demolition rockets and no bigger than 1" template you can take out those Doom Wheels and any artillery they can take pretty well.

Blunderbusses are pretty stinking good vs them as well, the only thing i would change is dropping the wolf riders for more infernal guard or find the points to put in a unit of Bull Centaur Renders with extra hand weapons. They can hold up a rat unit for a while on their own.

The trick against Skaven is to out shoot them which is pretty easy with Chaos Dwarfs. As long as you can inflict a good deal of damage to the important units in your opponents army everything else will wither away. Target their power houses first (Doom Wheels, Abominations, Warp Lightning Cannons) then target their BSB’s unit (no re-rolls for Skaven=scary rats). They are not nearly as scary as when they have their Cheese on the field.

Singleton Mosby:

Based on your advice I’ve changed my list into the following.

Lvl4 on Taurus (Terror) with Chalice and some protection

BSB with hammer of Hashut
Lvl 1, scroll
Khan on foot with Shriekin Blade (Fear)
Khan on Wolf with Mask of Eeee Terror

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24 Blunderbusses
39 Hobgoblins with additional handweapons

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2x Rocket Launcher
Magma Cannon

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K’daai (Terror)
Dreadquake Mortar

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This means three terror causing units, lots of heavy artillery to thin them out and deal with the ugly stuff, a strong flank and a very mobile hard-hitter.
It also means I will have to paint up some hobbos and a Taurus (what’s that guy’s base size?)

CopperPot:

A skaven army this size will be very aggressive Blackspine hit the nail on head with Ashstorm hit the Seer’s unit so he cant move so he will need to keep every unit within bubble or risk you running units of board and to get more shooting against them slave hordes.

Singleton Mosby:

A skaven army this size will be very aggressive Blackspine hit the nail on head with Ashstorm hit the Seer's unit so he cant move so he will need to keep every unit within bubble or risk you running units of board and to get more shooting against them slave hordes.

CopperPot
That's the general idea, yes. And the (other) reason I put the lvl4 on a Taurus. He will cast a lot of magic and use lots of dice to get of Ashstorm every turn. The dreadquake is also nice to slow down the Seer's unit. :hat off

CopperPot:

Dreadquakes nice, But a Hellcannon with re-rolls will kill more and cause panic.

RichardC1967:

watch out for jezzail teams, they have the sniper rule and ignore armor saves…

Blackspine:

Dreadquakes nice, But a Hellcannon with re-rolls will kill more and cause panic.

CopperPot
That's a damn good idea.

Upside: panic at -1 (and with Hashut spells)
unbreakable and T-stomp in combat
can 'snipe' the 'towers' (furnace/ bell)
low enough T to not be hit by the damn bell roll.
with demonsmiths, we get a re-roll on the notoriously fickle stone throwers.

downside: skaven leadership is pretty good. St. in #'s and the damn general being 18" on the bell

I'd take two of these, lots of infantry, and a magma cannon.

jezzails are nasty, but somewhat unreliable. he/she could list tailor and bring these, but the thing is, there's so much bang for your buck in the skaven book.
Not that they're bad, but the book has just some disgustingly cheap options. -and yes, they'd make short work of small squads, and CAN shoot into slave combat. (which is :hashutsh*t)

Skaven are hard for elite armies, but the LoA have options that many don't.
watch out for the gutter runners.

Da Crusha:

I would have a couple of warmachines maybe 2 just in case he brings something like jezails or to shoot an abomb. 2 sturdy blocks of infantry and of course the destroyer. drop the taurus (normal one goes on a 50mm base btw). use the remaining points for a skullcracker or a unit of fireborne since either of those excel at killing infantry. lastly castle up in a corner. dont deploy right in the middle. deploy in the corner so your opponent wont hit you from front and flank all over the place. beware of gutterrunners tunneling teams popping out near you war machines. of course you will still need the BSB castellan. if you still have points try getting more stubbornness, either another castellan or a crown of command on a the wizard.

you already know your opponent is going to bring a horde of skaven, 200-300 models, so castling up is the best way to avoid fighting them all at once.

Geist:

watch out for jezzail teams, they have the sniper rule and ignore armor saves..

RichardC1967
NO they dont. Lets keep to the facts can we?
Jezzails are range 36 st6 ap meaning its -4 to armour. They can not snipe. If they roll a 1 to hit followed by another 1 they do a wound to themselves. There shots count as magical. No posting rules if you dont have the right of it.

Geist:

As to the list I must say yet again, your blunderbuss units are too small. 24 you will loose the re-roll power very fast. As to all this terror talk, sure yah its a great idea for small units of warmachine crews or the lil gun teams they have. But against the big bricks they aint going to to jack crapper. Those big bricks will be LD10 re-roll all day long. More bare naked khans on wolves to hunt things down, magma for doing massive damage to giant steadfast bricks. Big brick of blunderbusses to shred anything that gets too close. Big being 30 to 40. I run a 36 with bsb and general. That brick never runs.

CopperPot:

What about Two Hellcannons and having Doom and Darkness that could work well againts skaven and with some units causing Terror.

Singleton Mosby:

What about Two Hellcannons and having Doom and Darkness that could work well againts skaven and with some units causing Terror.

CopperPot
I have never used the Hellcannon as I don't have the model nor the rules. The later ones I found here on the GW site. These are 7th edition rules however. Has anything changed, and does it still hit at strength 10?

MLP:

What about Two Hellcannons and having Doom and Darkness that could work well againts skaven and with some units causing Terror.

CopperPot
I have never used the Hellcannon as I don't have the model nor the rules. The later ones I found here on the GW site. These are 7th edition rules however. Has anything changed, and does it still hit at strength 10?


Singleton Mosby
I belive these are actually 6th ed rules. They're certainly not the same as the ones in the current Warriors of Chaos book.

The rules are fairly similar though.

With your army list, it seems pretty well set up against skaven - basically magic defence and T3 killers. I agree with Grimbold Blackhammer about swapping around the items, that would leave points for some defence on your Prophet.

I think it could be worth dropping your two Blunderbuss units down into one unit of 30, then find points for a unit of K'daai Fireborn as they're excelent at killing T3 and won't break.

I don't think you really need the Magma cannon unless you expect to face many Rat Ogres and large things which your Destroyer can't handle. Fireing the Magma cannon into Clanrats is a waste you're better off using 5" Deathshriekers.