[Archive] What makes High Elves supposedly 'overpowered'?

EuphoricMelody:

Hey.

I was wondering, when High Elves were first rereleased i remember people complaining about them being overpowered (e.g. always strike first rule), but i had  my first battle uin over a year today against High Elves (using Chaos dwarfs of course, and btw, this guy was a regular whos beemn playing for over 10 years or something), and i was 20Pts off a ‘massacre’ result, and my game winning unnit was 40 hobgoblin with musician and standard. I was only playing a small game (600 pts) by the way. I also found it strange how such an old army can beat a supposed ‘overpowered’ army so badly, is it that High Elves only function effectively at higher points battles, or are Chaos dwarfs just that good, even after having no new releases of army books for 2 Editions?

Hashut’s Blessing:

They were deemed to be overpowered when they came out because they were the first army to get the power creep planned for 7th edition. You may have been luckier and a better tactician in a lot of areas to do so well and especially so if it was a 40 strong hobbo unit that won it for you.

Just my experience.

snowblizz:

As you say the points value means any general conclusions are out… also 1 game doesn’t make for a statistical viable sample.

People have not complained about HE after the “grace period” i.e. a couple of months after armybook release. VC, DoC and DE have pretty much gotten rid of that.

And being an old book isn’t certainly necessarily bad. CD have a lot of pre-6th ed strengths left, more in line with 7th perhaps.

A couple of games at 2000-2250 will be a better indicator. I’m going to be betting on the HE player at those points, but I have seen CDs win a tournament. The Earthshaker can be brutal some times. Blunderbusses are probably also fairly deadly vs HE when they close for the kill.

Lord Archaon:

Playing with high elfs the main threat are their dragons. You played a 600 pts game where High Elfs can’t take dragons. Try to play a couple of games with a 200-2500 strong high elfs army and then you will understand the overpowerness of them. :hat off

Baggronor:

You really need to know what you’re doing to get the most out of them. Plus, in sub 2000pt games, they are hard to do well with. 3000+ and they are seriously good. I don’t think they’re unbalanced though, everything in the list has its weakness.

two_heads_talking:

you played at 600 points… play a 2000 point game and watch the magic eat your army before you can do anything.

Maul:

The always strikes first makes their infantry potent. They get cheaper magic items and their magic can be very devastating, although it is far more easy to go defensive the offensive. It is a potent list with considerable flexibility amongst the magic schools. Potent elite infantry.

They are weak, with minimal armor, and they are expensive. A level 4 chaos dwarf sorcerer is the the same price as a level 3 high elf mage. A basic chaos dwarf warrior is the same price as a spearmen (their cheapest troop option), we get hobgoblins(2-4 pts), and orcs (5-7 pts). I think the earth shaker is a huge tool against them.

EuphoricMelody:

thanks for the input everyone.

just incase you were wondering, our army lists were:

Chaos Dwarfs:

CD Sorcerer Lvl 2 (with lore of shadow)

Hobgoblin hero - Armnour of gazrakh, Gauntlets of bazrakh, great Weapon (i’m sure he wasnt expecting a lowly hobgoblin to take out his prince in the first turn)

15 CD Warriors - Full Command

10 CD Warriors - Musician

38 Hobgoblins - Standard, Musician (ranked up 6 wide)

2 x Bolt Thrower

High Elves:

High Elf Prince

10 High Elf Spearmen

3 x 5 Swordmasters

Repeater Crossbow

Tiranoc Chariot

cornixt:

In 600pt games you will nearly always have a solid victory of one side.

Baggronor:

The always strikes first makes their infantry potent. They get cheaper magic items and their magic can be very devastating, although it is far more easy to go defensive the offensive. It is a potent list with considerable flexibility amongst the magic schools. Potent elite infantry.
One of their best qualities is the extra special and rare slots they get, its really quite good. I don't find their magic that bad, only drain magic irks me (or rather it irks my Vampires :)).

My m8 uses 4 (yes 4:o) Lion chariots plus a star dragon, thats hard. My Ravening Hordes CDs never beat it, my Anvil Dwarf list and VCs generally do fine tho.

Blunderbusses eat elf infantry :) Best way to deal with them pesky High Elves.

Willmark:

As a High Elf player since the 3rd edition days I concure with the statements made here. 6th edition rules for HEs were truly henious, this when they came out this edition people were screaming bloody murder.

ASF- is indeed nice, it doesn’t mean instnat death unless it’s against swordmasters; they can be deadly, but expensive.

T3, live it and remember it; even mighty heroes… T3.

Magic can be gruesome, if played right.

Swissdictator:

I never really experienced the nasty of HE. I played VC for the most part until I started Chaos Dwarfs (in some ways the 7th edition VC turned me off of them). I remember my spirit host in the flank, and coach in the front, of Swordmasters. They popped like a pimple with 5 impact hits and some dead from hosts.

It’s more the sheer number of elites, and mini-teclis that can irritate me to no end. You should at least get the minimum casting value to get the IF on that one item. Seeing a high end spell cast with IF on two 2’s is sickening… when my Grail Knights had MR3.

Baggronor:

It's more the sheer number of elites, and mini-teclis that can irritate me to no end. You should at least get the minimum casting value to get the IF on that one item. Seeing a high end spell cast with IF on two 2's is sickening... when my Grail Knights had MR3.
Yeah, the irresistible on any doubles thing is pretty lame come to think of it. Played 2 Teclis lists so far, beaten both but only because the players were muppets.
Strikes me as something a Slann should have, not an elf.

Swissdictator:

Don’t even need Teclis, they have the one item that does it on doubles.

It bothers me when an item/upgrade/etc is “I just do awesome because I have it”. If the item cost a lot more, required minimum casting value to be met, or burned out on a 1 at the end of the magic phase if used, or something I’d have no complaints whatsoever. Even my Book of Arkhan for my VC still burns out on a 1, and it’s nowhere near as nasty (then again, I played medium magic and more fighty VC (no blood knights either)).

Edit: If they don’t have the item I’m usually not to going to complain as much. Though the Banner of +D6 CR is annoying as well… though I think it is pretty expensive.

Baggronor:

Book of Arkhan sucks m8 :frowning: used to be worth it when it was cheaper. Now a power stone is better, you only need it for that one turn really.

I suppose its not ‘elfy’ to run out on a 1 :~

I think the Battle Banner is perfectly fine, as it requires a bsb and is very expensive, and no worse than the Drakenhoff Banner (the most hysteria-inducing magic item ever :slight_smile: I love it for that reason alone).

I actually think Banner of Ellyrian is absolutely wicked, having dragon princes run through terrain without penalty is awesome.