[Archive] Which of these 2k lists is better?

Eternal:

I am in the process of dedciing what to buy for my chaos dwarves and I always make an army list before I buy anything (to avoid buying things I dont use). So I have come up with two lists and am wondering which you htink is best:

Note: I am 100% against haveing any magic or scroll caddies in this list. I also want a very good shooting phase as all my previous armies didn’t have one at all.

List 1:

Chaos Dwarf Lord

Obsidian blade

Armour of Gazrakh

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Heavy armour

Battle standard bearer

Banner of slavery

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Heavy armour

Shield

Great weapon

Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the cruel

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Chaos Dwarf warriors x15

Blunderbusses

Hobgoblins x20

Light armour

Shields

Hobgoblins x20

Light armour

Shields

Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower x2

Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower

Death Rocket

Earthshaker

Hobgoblins x10

Wolves

Hobgoblins x10

Wolves

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Total: 1992

OR List 2:

Chaos Dwarf Lord

Obsidian blade

Armour of Gazrakh

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Battle standard bearer

Armour of the furnace

Great weapon

Shield

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Heavy armour

Shield

Great weapon

Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the cruel

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Banner of slavery

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Chaos Dwarf warriors x19

Blunderbusses

Hobgoblins x20

Light armour

Shields

Hobgoblins x20

Light armour

Shields

Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower x2

Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower x2

Death Rocket

Earthshaker

Hobgoblins x10

Wolves

Hobgoblins x10

Wolves

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Total:1997

So any ideas on which is best? Any suggestions on what to change? Is it too much shooting? I don’t want to end up with a gunline.

EDIT: I’ve been thinking and I’m leaning towards the second list now. Do you think a unit of 5 bull centaurs is better than the last 2 hobgob archers?

Auretious Taak:

Firstly, the 2nd list, the BSB is totally Illegal for play:

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Battle standard bearer

Armour of the furnace

Great weapon

Shield

He can’t carry any other weapons or equipment except armour or a single handed magic weapon. Can’t carry a BSB witha great weapon, nor defend yourself with a shield whilst holding it, So your BSB would be:

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Battle standard bearer

Armour of the furnace

Hand Weapon.

To the lists:

Having No magic I don’t agree with, but having no magic/defense and a hidden trick up your sleeve with the TALISMAN OF OBSIDIAN on a Lord, and you suddenly are doing something very nasty. Why? Because you have a Lord, such as a Bull Centaur Lord who is immune to all magic. It is a rather small thing to have but if you abuse it you can pack quite a nice surprise. It works better on a CD Lord on Bull Taurus but you don’t have one in either list more focused on blocked troops which is just fine.

I’d make one of the CD Heroes the Lord instead of the Lord Choice, all are LD 10 after all and this means you can be more flexible as that Lord Choice won’t be worth absolute buckets to kill in Victory Points.

To the lists:

OR List 2:

Chaos Dwarf Lord

Obsidian blade

Armour of Gazrakh

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Battle standard bearer

Armour of the furnace

Great weapon

Shield

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Heavy armour

Shield

Great weapon

Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the cruel

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Banner of slavery

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Chaos Dwarf warriors x19

Blunderbusses

Hobgoblins x20

Light armour

Shields

Hobgoblins x20

Light armour

Shields

Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower x2

Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower x2

Death Rocket

Earthshaker

Hobgoblins x10

Wolves

Hobgoblins x10

Wolves

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Hobgoblins x10

Bows

Total:1997
List two is definitely amuch more shooty list.

I’d look at instead of Warriors, taking a second or even third unit of Blunderbussmen. The Hob Gob Wolf Riders NEED Bow’s - they are okay naked but won’t win that many large combats by themselves. 10 Bows ona fast cavalry unit is pretty swish for the speed and hunting what you like, ie light skirmishes, lone characters, and warmachine crew (charge them for the lulz). Take a second Earthshaker. Fill that other Special choice with either 2 Bolt Throwers or a second Death Rocket. Why? You want a shooty force and have no magic, which is integral to a shooty force with all those magic missile you can throw around, but not necessary with that concentration of 2 earthshakers cancelling most of the enemy firepower and movement slowed, 2 deathrockets for splatter fn and 4 bolt throwers for heavy blocks of infantry. I do like the 40 hob gobs with Bow’s, though I’d suggest takinga unit of 20 or even 30 and line them up ina single line in front of the Blunderbussmen ranked behind. Why? You have fodder shield and when the enemy get to close the blunderbussmen just walk forwards past the now killed off hob gobs and spam blunderbuss fire into closed enemy, but that can be done with several small units anyways.

To the first List.

I like it. It isn’t particularly shooty though, it is more a static march forth and bog stuff down in combat list. I’d definitely take some Black Orcs in support of the CD’s, and possibly drop the 4th unit of 15 to get the BO’s. I’d cut out the Hob Gobs with shields and handweapons to instead double their numbers and take a few small units of 10 to act as cheap flankers. The CD’s aren’t worried if the Hob Gobs run so who cares right? Ue them to help pick your fights, oh the BO’s aren’t worried either. Sneaky Gits might actually be worth it in here, but upgrade ALL teh warrior units to have Great Weapons for added flexibility, 3 units full command, ranks and either a 3+ save or a strength 5 great weapon and 5+ save is damned nice. Banner of slavery is nice, but the force is static move frwards get bogged down. The Hob Gobs would be mostly within range of the BSB and General anyways so have a leadership 10 for the most part. I’d take a 4th hero, even just a Hob Goblin on foot witha great weapon and armour/shield, it’s cheap and you can do alot of damage. Maybe an enchanted shield on a CD Hero instead gives the strength 6 greatweapon or a 2+ armour save with hand weapon in combat. But it gives you much harder combatants to throw in the units and give s a solid anchor unit then. I’m not sure of the points cost but I’d go something like this:

Chaos Dwarf Lord

Obsidian blade

Armour of Gazrakh

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Heavy armour

Battle standard bearer

Warbanner

Chaos Dwarf Hero

Heavy armour

Shield

Great weapon

Gauntlets of Bazhrakk the cruel

Chaos dwarf Hero

Axe, Great Axe, Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield.

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Chaos Dwarf Warriors x19

Full command

Black Orcs x 15 or 19 with shields (don’t forget to pay for teh shields)

Full Command

10 Hob Gobs

10 Hob Gobs

10 Hob Gobs

10 Hob Gobs

20 Hob Gobs

20 Hob Gobs

Hobgoblins x10

Wolves, Light armour, shields.

Hobgoblins x10

Wolves, Light armour, shields.

Earthshaker

Earthshaker

Points are likely over but fiddle here and there. Not shooting ehavy at all, but a solid combat force that will only have issues against magic heavy armies, and crap loads of incorporeal opponents.

I hope this helps,

Auretious Taak.