# \[Archive\] Why take a Hell cannon over a dread quake?

**URL:** <https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420>\
**Category:** \[Archive\] Chaos Dwarf Discussion\
**Created:** [3 September 2014 07:42 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420 "2014-09-03T07:42:56Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 18\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![system](https://chaos-dwarfs-uploads.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/1X/058cf99fdec95c6eee5c82f87c1a7b1af846a162.png) [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)\
**Post date:** [3 September 2014 07:42 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/1 "2014-09-03T07:42:56Z")

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**faFFadylan2398** :

I am told by lots of Chaos dwarf players to take a Hell Cannon, I just keep wondering why take it over a dread quake Mortar. The Mortar is a large blast over the small for the Hell Cannon. The Mortar also causes turain tests over the Cannons panic test and the cost about the same. I have not played many games so i my not know the mechanic, but could some one please tell me why you would. thank you.

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**Author:** ![Admiral](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/user_avatar/discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/admiral/32/616_2.png) [@Admiral](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Admiral)\
**Post date:** [3 September 2014 07:47 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/2 "2014-09-03T07:47:39Z")

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**Admiral** :

For flavour. The Hellcannon can eat its own crew and go berzerk. That’s why.

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**Post date:** [3 September 2014 07:56 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/3 "2014-09-03T07:56:20Z")

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**Thommy H** :

The Hellcannon is a monster too, so it can fight. You can’t compare them that easily to be honest.

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**Post date:** [3 September 2014 08:29 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/4 "2014-09-03T08:29:52Z")

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**BABIS** :

> The Hellcannon is a monster too, so it can fight. You can't compare them that easily to be honest.  
>   
> **Thommy H**

it has magic attacks also.   
  
try to hit a unit to which you have succesfully casted -3Ld from the lore of Death, -4 Ld test ;)

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**Author:** ![Malorndk](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/e79b87/32.png) [@Malorndk](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Malorndk)\
**Post date:** [3 September 2014 08:47 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/5 "2014-09-03T08:47:43Z")

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**Malorndk** :

No but serously! It can fight! It’s an ubreakable, countercharging, thunderstomping anchor point in the army. A dreadquake is just another warmachine waiting to give Vp to the opponent. 1 hellcanon can block and protect our 2 magmas easily. A dreadquake can not.  
  
1 thing to speak for the quake: It has range 72. So in a competition game, the opponent will be less incline to make a cornerhug behind a hill and wait for a draw

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**Author:** ![system](https://chaos-dwarfs-uploads.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/1X/058cf99fdec95c6eee5c82f87c1a7b1af846a162.png) [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)\
**Post date:** [3 September 2014 10:40 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/6 "2014-09-03T10:40:48Z")

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**sam585** :

You can read my battle reports the latter ones have me using double dreadquakes and then a dreadquake and a hellcannon.  
  
Dreadquakes differ from hellcannons because they actually do put out alot more damage against high armor targets that we struggle against, and the forced Dangerous terrain checks add extra wounds. Hellcannons are good in the sense that you have the option of fighting with it in CC when shooting is no longer an option. Usually if you are going to go for the castle and shoot Cdwarf approach take both a Hellcannon and a Mortar. However, please realize if your opponent is making it to your lines in any sizeable fashion (where having a Hellcannon would be very necessary) you likely would lose the battle or get a draw regardless.  
  
Also from my understanding the Dreadquake uses the same blast template (smaller one) that the Hellcannon uses. Only the Rocket gets to use the large template normally. Unless I am mistaken :P.

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**Post date:** [4 September 2014 06:22 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/7 "2014-09-04T06:22:14Z")

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**ThorAxe** :

Agree with sam, the mortar can take the large blast? Would be a no brainer there. As is, using the smaller blast, no reason not to take the hell canon, as it is also magical, and is an unbreakable monster for cheaper if the mortar has an ogre…

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**Author:** ![Bloodbeard](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Bloodbeard](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Bloodbeard)\
**Post date:** [4 September 2014 11:09 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/8 "2014-09-04T11:09:03Z")

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**Bloodbeard** :

The title of your thread should be: "_Why take a dread quake mortar over a hell cannon?_"  
  
The Hellcannon is the better choice i my opinion.   
  
�?� They hit with same strentgh and template size.  
  
�?� Skills: DQM is armor piecing which is nice against very heavy armored armies. But against the HCs -1 LD test, I think HC is better. At -2 to armor save, strength five a tempmate weapon will cause mayhem against anything. A matter of taste.  
  
But:  
  
�?� The dreadquake is 5 points more expensive (because the ogre is an absolut must have).  
  
�?� The DQM is -1 on misfire chart.  
  
�?�The HC is magical attacks, that’ll cost the DQM 25 points more.  
  
�?� When the enemy gets close, they Helllcannon is a formidable unbreakable close combat power. The DQM will run a chance of hitting friendlies, been too close to fire and only be able to try an pick of small enemy things far away.  
  
A Hellcannon close enough to the BSB is my choice any day.  
  
Perhaps in very large games 2400+, I would bring on of each. Just for the fun and difference. But they are both rare. So I would properly stuck up on magma cannon, deathshriekers and use rsr for a K’daii Destroyer.

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**Author:** ![system](https://chaos-dwarfs-uploads.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/1X/058cf99fdec95c6eee5c82f87c1a7b1af846a162.png) [@system](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/system)\
**Post date:** [4 September 2014 08:30 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/9 "2014-09-04T08:30:58Z")

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**Doombeard** :

The trick used to be use the Earth Shaker Cannon - the 4th edition version of the DQM in conjunction with your Blunderbuss unit.   
  
I can’t remember the exact rules but the theory was synergy based, slow them down with the earth shakers movement penalties and hit them with a big bus’ unit as they advance.  
  
The movement penalties from the Earthshaker would buy you an extra round or two of shooting as the enemy advances towards your static gunline and really disrupt tightly packed formations of advancing troops. I havn’t played WHFB since 4th edition so I really can’t say if this tactic still works, but it was one of my favourite strategies back in 4th.  
  
I’ve read people saying its not worth taking bus’ss because they only get one round of shooting off before they are in combat. Would be interested to hear what some experienced generals think and if this is a plausible tactic in 8th edition?

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**Author:** ![Bloodbeard](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Bloodbeard](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Bloodbeard)\
**Post date:** [5 September 2014 05:33 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/10 "2014-09-05T05:33:41Z")

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**Bloodbeard** :

> Would be interested to hear what some experienced generals think and if this is a plausible tactic in 8th edition?  
>   
> **iamahobgoblin**

It's not. Because the DQM doesn't slow enemy units down. The dangerous terrain test force a d6 roll on all miniatures in the unit, a roll of 1 takes out the mini. So it gives som extra wounds, but doesn't slow them down.   
  
I could see the tactic work with Lore of Shadows, takng d3 movement from enemies. But that will still only stop a single unit. And the lamassu can take that lore.

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**Author:** ![Lord\_of\_Uzkulak](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/user_avatar/discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/lord_of_uzkulak/32/161_2.png) [@Lord\_of\_Uzkulak](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Lord_of_Uzkulak)\
**Post date:** [5 September 2014 06:32 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/11 "2014-09-05T06:32:10Z")

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**Dînadan** :

> > Would be interested to hear what some experienced generals think and if this is a plausible tactic in 8th edition?  
> >   
> > **iamahobgoblin**
> 
> It's not. Because the DQM doesn't slow enemy units down. The dangerous terrain test force a d6 roll on all miniatures in the unit,&nbsp;&nbsp;a roll of 1 takes out the mini. So it gives som extra wounds,&nbsp;&nbsp;but doesn't slow them down.   
>   
> I could see the tactic work with Lore of Shadows, takng d3 movement from enemies. But that will still only stop a single unit. And the lamassu can take that lore.  
>   
>   
> **Bloodbeard**

Actually it depends on the psychological effect on your opponent - I've hit things with a Dreadquake and then had the other guy decide not to move to avoid taking the dangerous terrain test.  
  
That said, Ash Storm is far better at the tactic suggested (provided you get it off) as, while it doesn't stop movement, it does stop charges, effectively stalling a unit in front of your blunderbusses.

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**Post date:** [5 September 2014 12:03 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/12 "2014-09-05T12:03:26Z")

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**Doombeard** :

That’s a shame! I’d probably only take it when I needed a stone thrower then.

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**Post date:** [15 September 2014 01:23 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/13 "2014-09-15T01:23:43Z")

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**Far2Casual** :

By the way : the HC can also get out of control, which doesn’t happen with the Mortar.  
  
I know it’s only a slight drawback, but everyone who has used a HC quite a bit has stories where it has completely destroyed your beautiful plans.

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**Author:** ![MadHatter](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@MadHatter](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MadHatter)\
**Post date:** [15 September 2014 01:44 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/14 "2014-09-15T01:44:38Z")

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**MadHatter** :

> By the way : the HC can also get out of control, which doesn't happen with the Mortar.  
>   
> I know it's only a slight drawback, but everyone who has used a HC quite a bit has stories where it has completely destroyed your beautiful plans.  
>   
> **Far2Casual**

Last time I faced WoC their hellcannon blew up with a 16" blast radius, effectively killing lone heroes thus sending their surrounding units into panic.

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**Post date:** [16 September 2014 09:21 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/15 "2014-09-16T09:21:02Z")

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**Rettile** :

maybe i’m wrong, but i think you cannot reroll scatter/artillery dice for the hellcannon because it’s not a warmachine

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**Author:** ![Bloodbeard](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Bloodbeard](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Bloodbeard)\
**Post date:** [16 September 2014 10:02 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/16 "2014-09-16T10:02:28Z")

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**Bloodbeard** :

> maybe i'm wrong, but i think you cannot reroll scatter/artillery dice for the hellcannon because it's not a warmachine  
>   
> **Rettile**

Thamurkhans FAQ/errata clearly states that you can use the Daemonsmith re-roll on the Hell Cannon - despite it being a monster.

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**Post date:** [16 September 2014 11:34 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/17 "2014-09-16T11:34:29Z")

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**Rettile** :

oh well, then Hell Cannon FOREVAH

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**Post date:** [19 September 2014 02:07 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/archive-why-take-a-hell-cannon-over-a-dread-quake/20420/18 "2014-09-19T02:07:34Z")

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**Novos** :

Wanted to add one little point to this. In my current gunline list I’m using one of each. One really cool aspect to the Dreakduake, (besides the quake rule which causes all kinds of havoc) is the fact that the DQ can freely pivot. The move OR shoot rule from the HC really limits your target options where as with the DQ you can essentially shoot anyone.   
  
Also the DQ definitely uses the small template, nothing that states otherwise.  
  
The damage they do is very comparable. My experience so far is that the hellcannon scored more casualties, but that was simply due to rolls.  
  
Statistically the DQ will put out slightly more shooting damage. But not many people are playing deathstars anymore anyway, so it might not matter much.   
  
My gaming group is like 75% elves, so personally speaking I should probably drop the DQ for a second HC. But in a meta where Chaos Warriors and Brets are abundant, maybe the DQ would be a better choice. I honestly love both of them but the fact that the HC doubles over as a moderately powerful monster makes it the clear winner. And 5 points cheaper! :smiley: Hello light armor on my khans 😛  
  
- Novos