- NOTE: If you are not willing to read this whole post, then please don’t bother responding -
OK, please don’t get all pissed that I opened up a new topic to seemingly continue the locked conversation, but I definitely deserve to at least say something in my defense.
I’m totally cool with the idea that most people don’t want politics and what-not real life issues on this forum. If that’s the case, than I completely respect your wishes. Why the hell would I want to annoy you?
The thing is… Chaos Dwarfs Online has an “off topic” section. Are we really incapable of having civil discussions about serious matters? If you disagree with something that is posted then just don’t respond. If you do respond, then I don’t really see how you can claim to be bothered by it… as you took the time to further it!
People disagree, that’s nature. Share your opinion, I’ll share mine… opinions change, sometimes they don’t, but the only way they do is by staying calm, rational, and logical about it, when responding. It hurts your argument to start calling people names or assume you know who they are as a person from a few posts, all because you decided to get offended by them.
As far as my complaint about the moderator over there… I told you my only point in bringing that up was to show that moderator privileges can be used to censor things, thrown in the last word, hurt people’s feelings, whatever, you name it… I thought it was relevant to a post I had made only a little while back about not locking threads just becuz you disagree (I am not saying anyone did/does that over here. I’m just saying it sucks when people do). Also, some are saying I should take it up with the daemonic legion forum? I don’t really feel the need to take it up with anyone… but even if I did, I couldn’t… I’m banned remember
Now… Servius is so so so so EXTREMELY far off from knowing who I am as a person, and my intentions and purpose for being in these online communities.
He’s completely off his rocker if he thinks for a second that I am intentionally trying to spark anyone’s fire. That’s not me, and never has been. I do not enjoy negative or heated altercations, that’s why I try and keep them as clean and friendly as possible (As you’ll see, I cannot say the same for Servius… and that’s a bit ironic to say the least).
Im sure there are much better places than here, mainly because Im rather sure you wont turn anybodys opinions with a post hereThat may be true but maybe I was never trying to change anyone’s mind in the first place. All I’ve ever done was express my own personal opinions and beliefs, while expecting to hear yours in return… to consider them, learn from them, and debate them. That is how we grow as people. It is the art and essence of learning and conversation.
Sometimes I agree, sometimes you guys change my mind, good points are made on BOTH sides… Just because you/someone doesn’t agree doesn’t make either one of us right OR wrong. Why does everything have to be reduced to such simple absolute terms?
You’ll notice I’ve never once in any post I’ve made in any warhammer forum, ever proclaimed myself to be “right”. I merely made statements and provided my reasoning for it… If someone disagrees they tell me why… I then directly respond to them with my thoughts on their stance/ideas… How is this trolling or stubborn behavior?
I would class the following as delicate topics best limited on CDO and therefore not appropiate. Religion Politics Economics Criminalityreminds me of that old classic saying:
“never discuss politics or religion at the warhammer table”
Their forum, their rules, you either except them or you don’t.
But I never broke their rules. Banning someone for having civil discussions (that everyone who participated seemed to think was worth having, and keeping civil… minus 1 apparently ‘sickened’ person and a power tripping mod)… was completely out of line and pretty much completely absurd.
Servius proclaimed I should be shot for my viewpoints and beliefs… I asked that he please don’t talk like that while we’re trying to have a friendly and intelligent discussion… and I turn out banned? See the absurdity?
Che, you must know that you take your topics way too far!I really don’t see that. If someone responds with their thoughts on something I’ve said, I think they deserve to have their thoughts considered and discussed. If someone makes a personal insult, I point it out and say shame on you for that… If I feel like moderation is being used as a way to quash discussion (that hasn’t descended into personal insults) and as a way of saying “you’re wrong and i’m right, end of story, and by the way shut up.” I’ll call it out… If I’m wrong about it, or have gotten the wrong impression. Isn’t everyone free to tell me just that?
I am really just struggling hard to find anything outrageous about trying to figure out how a rule was intended to be played… suggesting to change government policy in order to lower crime, disease, death, poverty, and the prison population… and pointing out nefarious and often illegal activities that my own home country’s federal government is engaged in… I don’t see why any of these things can’t be discussed in a friendly manner. Why have an off-topic section at all, if things like that are generally discouraged. It’s like “Discuss anything on your mind in this section with your chaos dwarf online friends in here! … but don’t talk about anything other than chaos dwarfs?” bu-whaa??? … well it is!
You complain about Free Speech everywhere you go.I would never complain about free speech. I only expect that generally within reason, people adhere to that kind of philosophy on a friendly open forum… Aren’t you the guy who just said…
I am not a fan of deleting threads, or locking them.and…
I hate censorship. If there is a real need for members to discuss this, they are welcome to it, in my view.
Our forum image should be a welcoming one yes, but not a censoring one.Those literally sum up everything and anything I’ve ever said about free speech, within the context of an online warhammer forum. I’d say we’re on the same page.
But don’t engage in a trolling war. Just giving the last word on something doesn’t make you win. If you can’t convince people with your arguments, move on.I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I express my viewpoints, and defend them when they are argued, as anyone would. I give people the response they are entitled to. What’s the point in posting anything if you don’t want or expect a response? When has anyone ever said in life “Lemme talk to you, but don’t respond to me AT ALL, even when I’m finished. Just don’t. I don’t care if you disagree, or have something interesting to share about it. Just… move along…” … I’ve never heard it.
and this whole concept of me somehow trolling…
the wikipedia definition of trolling is to post something “with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion”
I’ve never done either one. I’m not responsible for another members level of emotion within their response, and I assure you I’ve never intentionally tried to make someone get emotional. I’ve also never disrupted an on-topic discussion. I’ve only discussed what was being discussed… that was it.
I think we should all be a little more careful when dishing out this label of a “troll”, as that in itself is obviously name-calling. Whether or not someone is a troll is entirely based on what their intention was when posting something. I have no desire to provoke anyone or piss off anyone or upset anyone, or make anyone physically ill… I’m really baffled at how anyone could take someone’s well-intentioned thoughts and ideas so out of context and to such a violent extreme, that they would make themselves physically ill… I really hope that kind of behavior is extremely rare, as it doesn’t sound very healthy.
But don’t beat a dead horse over and over againIf someone disagrees with something I’ve said… especially when it is because they assume I’m attempting to incite or do something that I never would (like the whole rules-lawyer thing)… I’ll do what I can to show them my thoughts from another perspective… I might clarify something… or try to show where I’m coming from… There’s no beating going on there. I respond, nothing more. If all I was doing was repeating myself, I would shut up.
On a couple of boards I’m on they have Off-Topic discussion areas where nearly anything goes (heck one even allows swearing.) I’ve been in long discussions about politics, the US Constitution, The 2nd Amendment, Legalized Drugs, Etc on these boards and the admins never even considered banning anyone. They believed that it was properly put in an area that was for use of topics not acceptable in any other part of the site. But the admins on those sites are well know supporters of freedom of speach.Couldn’t agree more. Well put :hat off
It sounds like the one that banned you was on a power trip.
Part of the reason we can get along easily as when you’re in person it is easier to register the mood and intent of statements and therefore easier to understand it’s a friendly little discussion. The internet makes this much harder.That is an excellent point. This why we should all be careful with our assumptions on character, intention, and zeal.
creating threads just to debate isn’t so understandable for me… unless there’s a sub-forum dedicated to debates. If there is such a sub-forum by all means go for it. Otherwise it comes across as being a rabble rouser, regardless if that is true or not… that is the perception.well it is an off-topic forum… that’s usually a kind of anything goes zone for discussion… a debate is nothing more than a discussion that considers multiple conflicting viewpoints in attempt to establish a kind of unity or greater understanding… sometimes it’s just fun to talk… a debate doesn’t have to become this giant polarizing battle that some make it out to be. The discussions don’t start as debate. They usually begin with a question or idea and then take off from there…
You know I put a long post about why i thought you got banned and your misperceived “rights” on the internet…Sounds kinda trolly to be honest. From what you’ve said, you actually appealed to the moderators of the forum in hopes that I would be removed for your comfort. Hopefully I’m not the only person who sees the immense ammount of rudeness, judgment, selfishness, and hate that fueled such a plea for someone’s removal.
That’s not even trolling… that’s just messed up… and sad for me
It’s a shame that other members of the daemon gamer community won’t be able to see my creatively modeled and original armies now because you and 1 other person have that much hatred inside of you. I feel bad for them and I hope to god that kind of thing never happens here on CDO.
talking about how much you hate the government and the majority viewI never said I hate the government, not even once. I posted some links to articles that show reason to question what the US government is doing… if you’ve assumed that means I’m upset at some of the things they are doing you’d be generally right. However you got lucky with your assumption that time. The rest of your assumptions are so far off they venture into the territory of paranoid and hateful delusions.
All I can say is this. If I start seeing those political/social charged conversations on CDO like you were doing at Daemonic Legion… I’m gone. Same as I did with Daemonic Legion.Are you making ultimatums now? I really couldn’t care less whether you leave or not all because you couldn’t handle hearing people express their opinions… that is your right. Don’t expect us to care or fight for you to stay. You are completely over-reacting, and acting like it is other people’s faults or the responsibility of the forums.
You told me I should be shot (not the greatest thing for someone like me, who actually HAS been shot, to hear), and called me an assortment of insults and names, but you don’t see me getting ill, and i’m still here. No one can hurt you online except yourself. Don’t work yourself up into a position where you can get hurt.
but you were pending a suspension either way for the rude comment Happy so you don’t think some crazy injustice was done to you… You deserved your ban.
This is the most delusional part yet… We’re talking about the guy who called for my assassination over an opinion… yet somehow I deserved to be banned???
It would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to find even one moment of rudeness on my behalf. This so-called “rude comment” you are imagining does not exist. It is YOU that everyone jumped on for being out-of-line and saying ugly things. So what gives you the will to fabricate such a story?
Here is a “pleasant” and “tolerant” (as “Zanko” calls him) comment made by Servius (with a Chaos Dwarf avatar no less! ) on that thread:
“Your an idiot and shouldn’t be allowed to exist. You are a vile creature from the depths of the earth expelled to bring Stupidity to the masses.” - Servius
“I pity you, you are a very sad and decrepit person from my viewpoint then.” - Servius
All that was also preceded by him calling my thoughts “idiotic banter”…
and this was my “ignorant and intolerant” (as “Zanko” calls me) response after Servius was scolded by several forum members for his behavior:
“I’d like to thank Pedro and Finnigan for rescuing our conversation and making sure it doesn’t get reduced to ugliness and insults. We all lose when that happens. I am actually extremely thankful that you guys have maintained interest in discussing and debating this issue and have desire to keep it friendly. That is really awesome. Thank you!” - CheTralfara
WOW! that is such a rude thing for me to say!
Talk about legalizing drugs in a fourm that’s pretty much designed for kids and young teens isn’t a Kool place for such conversations.Well my point of view on the legalization of drugs is coming from a place where addiction would receive better treatment… There would be dramatically better and effective drug education… An extreme reduction in crime (including NO MORE drug-dealing kids and teens… which is the NORM in cities)… and where safer and responsible use of drugs would replace most abuse and overdose…
Considering those beneficial factors on society and youth, I hardly see how any of that causes harm to children and teens. A teen who is well-educated on the subject could do a lot to voice the danger that today’s drug policies have on the safety of children from the effects of drugs… to voice these dangers to their parents who have been brainwashed for decades into believing in a massive failure/flop/total disaster of a policy.
Also remember… This is a forum for Warhammer Fantasy Battles, not Warhammer 40k. Warhammer FB is mostly young adults and older. I’ve only seen one person under the age of 20 playing warhammer at my local games store. But when it comes to 40k, they are almost ALL under 20.
I also think it’s worth mentioning that, the reason the majority of drug dealers in the city are children and young teens is because of the way city drug laws have been crafted. City drug laws have caused the awful unintended consequence of providing a huge incentive for high-level drug dealers/suppliers to hire out young children/teens as street-level drug dealers. These incentives include lesser “sentences” on children for dealing and possession. This often creates scenarios like where a child dealer will get picked up off the street by a cop for dealing, and be right back selling on that street corner later that night (or the very next morning). The high-end dealers often supply illegal guns to these kids, as normal legal outlets cannot be used to handle illegal drug business disputes… so instead they are left with violence and murder as a way of running the business. Lesser “sentences” also mean less chance that the ‘pinched’ dealer will snitch/tell on the high-end dealer/supplier.
In conclusion, if you open the thread on the daemonic legion up again and refresh, you’ll notice that the same mod temporarily re-opened the topic so that he could continue to spout whatever statements without any response or rebuttals. That kind of behavior says it all.
- It shows that the conversation was obviously going places (if it wasn’t, that mod wouldn’t have more links to post and things to say on the matter)
- it also proves that he just wanted to stop me from defending my position, as the mod can now share any “information” without me being able to respond and review it.
- it also proves that he didn’t actually ban me for making any “controversial conversation” or else he wouldn’t be CONTINUING that very conversation!!
- it also shows how he hasn’t read nearly anything that was already said, or else he wouldn’t be wasting his time repeating the same information (as I’ve already covered the details of every concern in his little linkies at the end). just makes himself look bad.
The hypocrisy and backwardzness within the whole act of banning me and closing that thread is STAGGERING.