I play Beasts of Choas and I am thinking about building a second army, I really like Dwarfs/gobo’s/Swarm Armies
1)Do you feel the a Choas Dwarfs army is COMPETITIVE, Winning isn’t everything to me but I want to compete with my gaming group and through skill/strategy/planning win games. Can Chaos Dwarf’s give me wins!
2) Do you guys get denied games based on being a “rare” army?
3) What is the general feeling towards Chaos Dwarfs? Cheezieness? I’ve read a lot of the content and most of the posted army lists, but how do you feel about the communities reaction to you?
1)Do you feel the a Choas Dwarfs army is COMPETITIVE, Winning isn't everything to me but I want to compete with my gaming group and through skill/strategy/planning win games. Can Chaos Dwarf's give me wins!
2) Do you guys get denied games based on being a "rare" army?
Tournaments are limited - no CDs in GW "official" tournaments I'm afraid. Other than that there was one guy that refused to play me if I fielded two Earthshakers, but that's about it.
3) What is the general feeling towards Chaos Dwarfs? Cheezieness? I've read a lot of the content and most of the posted army lists, but how do you feel about the communities reaction to you?
Beardiness is in the eye of the guy getting his tuckus handed to him. Two Earthshakers is considered fairly beardy. Using the same castle set-up game after game is beardy. Chaos Dwarfs are no more or less beardy than other armies, really.
Chaos dwarfs are great. Over powerd magic, AMAZING mounts, Blunderbuss’s, and my favorite Earthshaker. They are a challenge to beat. I’d say that they also are a swarm armie… Hobbo’s come by the dozens and are nice meant shields.
EDIT: I always am allowed, even tho Chaos Dwarfs are a rare armie… i must say, they heavily underestimate me.
I’m not sure magic is really an issue - they’re no more dangerous than any other army in that respect.
Chaos Dwarfs will do fine if used well: much like any other army, really. There are a couple of abusive quirks that are more artefacts of the lists age and the situation in which it was written (i.e. as a stripped down, two page, “get you by” affair). Hobgoblin wolf riders always being fast cavalry no matter what their save makes them the best fast cavalry in the game, and they’re noticeably unbalanced versus ordinary Goblins with the equivalent set up. You can field masses of naked Hobgoblins for a ridiculously low cost, which can be unbalanced because they’ll win with static combat resolution - they’re the cheapest thing in the game, but not at all the worst. You can max out on bolt throwers, which will cause headaches, and Earthshakers are just absurdly awesome - two is definitely abusive.
So, in other words, there are a number of extreme options that make the list not so much to play against, but very few people have the means (or the inclination) to trot things like that out. Who has that many Hobgoblin models, for example?
To be honest, Chaos Dwarfs aren’t a gamer’s army. If you want to collect them, you should really do it for the challenge of fielding an army that you can’t easily get models for, and for which almost all the fluff is malleable. They’re not for winning games with.
Much like anything its a case of who you are playing against in terms of armies; some armies are hard, some are softer.
Chaos Dwarfs are showing their age at this stage, but as Thommy noted there are also some things that are in the list that make it awesome.
I gave up VC for CD (VC burnout)… and I have never regreted it to be honest.
Thankfully I’m lucky as the tournaments in my area are more then happy to see Chaos Dwarfs running around. I do keep some armies as backups for tournaments where they’re not.
1. Yes, they can be competitive. Unless someone goes hardcore ultra-cheese with some recent armies (where most armies have no chance) you can win with them. One of our strengths is people are less familiar with them. Blunderbuss can be very devestating, especially against undead as we can hit enough to mitigate their numbers and force them to heal more. It’s even crazier if you get a unit in the crossfire of two!
We have cheap cannon fodder (Hobgobs) that are the same price as Skaven Slaves, but I’d argue much better. They can also be very effective as bowmen (for dirt cheap). Even with armor I don’t think they are half bad for the cost. Plus not causing panic in the rest of our army when Hobgobs flee and such is nice. Also while the Hobgob wolf riders are 10+ they don’t lose fast cav for lots of armor… so they can be a decent cheap medium cav.
We have enough options that we can make some good builds. Also, ld 10 heroes are not to be underestimated. They have saved my army a few times! Flexibility as you can make a more mobile shock troops (Lord on Great Taurus Bull Centaurs, BC heroes, and Hobgobs on Wolves)… you can make a defensive list (shaker, rocket and a couple bolt throwers… a unit or two of blunderbuss and a unit or two of archers)… you can go horde (lots of Hobgobs)… Magic heavy… etc You can really fit it to your playstyle usually.
2. Around here I’ve never been denied a game. One small area gives me a bit of hard time, but I don’t game with them a lot. Every where else people think Chaos Dwarfs are really cool and look forward to playing them. I’m even taking them to a tournament that’s probably one of the 3 largest in the USA.
3. They can be beardy. 2 Shakers and 8 Bolt Throwers would be over the top, and you could still have a lot of other stuff. Two shakers alone can be nasty… unless you’re playing a 5,000+ points game then 2 might be ok. I basically figure one shaker for every 2,500 points or so.
They are a bit of a challenge, but they’re also a lot of fun. They’re an easy army to love (for me) for fluff and the hobbyist perspective.
There are three types of people in Warhammer (Though we all have some of each in us):
Gamer: Someone who picks an army for the way it plays. They may or may not be about winning, or cheese. They pick an army because the the play style fits their thinking, they think some options/rules are really cool, or they think they can do the best with them.
I do love gaming, and the tournament scene, so while this is not my main mentality… I design CD lists with my thinking in mind as they can fit it. I want an army that I can be effective with and put up a fight with. I’ve played an army that has always been very strong, but I’m happier with my CD.
Hobbyist: They love the converting, painting, and love to make an army look GOOD, or at the very least the best they can make it look. They may collect several armies as they love painting and such. They’re happier with an army whose appearance they can be proud of. Sometimes these people judge it based on the figures available, others on what they can do with it.
This is where I tend to fall. The artistic freedom allowed if you convert, is amazing. I’ve seen some amazing work on this sight, and I’m very proud of my new army. I happily field my new CD as I want to make people stop and go “Ooh”.
The Roleplayer: They get into the background of the army, the fluff, the feel of it, etc. Perhaps they associate a personality with an army and see that as fun, perhaps they think an army is hilarious so they run with them (Skaven are like that for me), perhaps they think it is very (insert style here). Perhaps if they have a historical parralel (TK to Egypt, Lizard to Meso-America) perhaps they find them cool due to the historical comparison.
I fit in here quite a bit too. I like the steampunk feel to the Chaos Dwarfs. I love how they have some in common with the western Dwarfs, but are very different… spiteful, evil, maniacal… etc. They have the appeal Dwarfs don’t… for several reasons.
I respectfully disagree with Thommy. I have done well with them in my area (3-0 one tournament, 2-0)… and I’ve struggled too. The ones where I struggled usually had me facing either cheesey lists… or very good generals using decent armies.
If you’re worried about ability to win check out the battle reports section. There’s a lot to be learned from there.
i would say im the roleplayer, i love chaos dwarfs on account for them being dwarfs and chaos, the two things i love the most about WH, ive allways wanted to try the roleplay game but the guyes i played d’n’d stopped playing. (ranger beastmaster ftw!)
I respectfully disagree with Thommy. I have done well with them in my area (3-0 one tournament, 2-0)... and I've struggled too. The ones where I struggled usually had me facing either cheesey lists... or very good generals using decent armies.
I didn't mean they were weak - they're strong, and can be excessively so if abused - but I question why someone who wants a tough army would pick them. The choice to collect Chaos Dwarfs shouldn't be based on their power level, because it's not worth the headache of trying to amass a decent looking army for such a meagre advantage (if one even exists). If you want to win, play Daemons. But if you want a pretty unique Warhammer experience, a fanatical community to be part of and a wide open sandbox to play in, then Chaos Dwarfs are something worth checking out.
Ok, I see what you were saying Thommy, my bad! :cheers
You do raise a good point. If you want to be leading the pack at tournaments VC, DE, and DoC are the way to go in my eyes. I’ll be honest, at an hard boyz style tournament… I would not take my CD… I’d take my Nurgle Demons or Dark Elves. Though CD can let you lead in painting/appearance scores!
If you don’t mind a challenge, and want a fun/good looking army… CD are a good pick. Be it you convert them, or collect old school figures.
As with any army: If you love them (for whatever reasons aside from perhaps gaming ones) you’re more likely to stick to them through the challenges and learning curve.
CDs do also give you the option of using the Dwarf army list, which is legal at any tourney and very balanced.
1. Competitive? Yes, they can be. They will tend to be seen as dirty when they are played competitively though, as the ‘winning’ lists tend to be magic heavy double earth shaker monstrosities with hordes of expendable hobgoblins. Think Thorek gunline territory. They will probably give you more wins than Beastmen in the current gaming climate, but don’t expect top tables at tournies (assuming they even allow CDs).
2. Sometimes. I pretty much only use the Dwarf list nowadays, mainly just because I like it more.
3. Most people don’t know much about them these days, so I wouldn’t say they have a reputation for being cheese as such.
They are inevitably more of a hobbyist’s army, as you need to convert or Ebay-search most of the models.