History & Science Finds

Ah once again damnable truth gets in the way of a good story @cornixt haha. Still knowledge is power! I’d rather know the truth :slight_smile:

what a great story! design momentum is a real fing innit.

regarding wheel ruts - they’re actually an advantage once they’ve built up. ruts are more likely to be kept clear of rocks and debris than the wider road, and are more resilient to changeable northern european weather systems.

I’m getting big 90s boomer mail chain forwarding around an american office in the text of that original narrative.

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Outstanding hahaha

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Tombs in UR. Mass sacrifice. Bull statues with beards. Big chaos dwarf energy

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Good find, thanks! Grisly indeed. And most inspiring for all powermongering crazed Sorcerer-Prophets out there. :smiley:

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Trick-or-treating in ancient Greece

Just a fun little historical curiosity appropriate to the season (@Admiral and @Oxymandias, you might enjoy):

The practice of trick-or-treating is not a particularly recent one. In ancient times, there existed in Rhodes a tradition called chelidonizein (can be roughly translated as “playing the swallow”), celebrating swallows as heralding the coming of spring. Children would go from door to door – possibly dressed up as swallows – and beg for treats, singing a traditional song in which stingy house owners were threatened with rather worse consequences than on modern-day Halloween (translated by C.D. Yonge):

The swallow, the swallow is come,

Bringing good seasons and a joyful time.

Her belly is white, her back is black.

Bring, oh bring, a cake of figs

Out of your luxurious house,

Bring a cup of wine,

And a dish of cheese,

And a bag of wheat.

Those the good swallow will not despise,

Nor a cake of eggs.

Shall we now go, or shall we get something?

Give something, and we’ll go; if you give nothing

We will not cease to pester you; we’ll force the door

And carry it away, or th’ upper lintel,

Or e’en your wife who sits within the house.

She is but little, we shall find her light.

If you give something, let it be worth having.

Open, then, open the door to the swallow,

For we are not old men, but only boys.

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Amazing! Also - imagine giving modern day
Trick or treaters a bag of wheat haha!

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Delving into the historical origins of fantasy settings and reveling in the ancient yet undying creativity of the human mind in creating stories of gods, magic, heroes, and beasts is one of the many things we enjoy doing together here on CDO. And bull centaurs being among the most iconic figures of Big Hat Chorfs, it seems only natural that we find our conversations returning regularly to the basic mythological concept of centaurs. So, as a follow-up to a short but very amusing discussion over on the Discord today, I would like to share a curious little piece of ancient Greek literature with you: an extract from a collection called “Incredible Tales”. Very little is known about its author Palaiphatos; indeed, the very name might be made up, as its possibly intended (though not original) meaning “teller of ancient things” fits his work altogether too nicely. He might have been a contemporary of Aristotle and Alexander. The collection itself is an attempt to provide rational explanations for some Greek myths which in their common form are, of course, incredible – hence the title. Here’s what it has to say about centaurs:

On centaurs

It is said about the centaurs that they were beasts possessing the entire shape of a horse except the head, in place of which they had the shape of a man. If anyone should think that such a beast can exist – it is impossible. For quite apart from the bodies of horses and men not being compatible at all, they do not require the same kind of nourishment, nor is it possible for a horse’s nourishment to pass through a human mouth and throat. Also, if there had ever been such a creature, it would still exist today.

The truth is as follows. When Ixion was king of Thessaly, a herd of bulls started running wild on Mount Pelion, rendering the surrounding highlands unsafe: for they repeatedly came down to the settlements, damaging trees and crops and killing cattle. So Ixion made it known that if someone should slay the bulls, he would pay a large reward for it. Now some youths living close to the mountain in a village called Nephele [“cloud”] had the idea of training horses for riding – for before that time, people had not learnt to ride horses, but had only used them with chariots.

So they mounted their riding-horses, rode to the dwelling-place of the bulls, and attacked the herd with javelins. Now whenever the bulls gave chase, the youths took flight – the horses being of course more swift-footed – but each time the bulls stopped their pursuit, they turned back and attacked them again. In this manner they managed to kill them and were consequently named “The Centaurs” [kentauroi], because they had shot the bulls dead [taurous katekentannusan]. They did of course not acquire this name for the sake of the bulls’ appearance – for centaurs do not possess any features of a bull, their appearance being that of a horse-man – but for the sake of their accomplishment.

Having received their reward from Ixion and priding themselves on their deed, the Centaurs grew insolent and committed many crimes, even against Ixion himself, who was living in the city now called Larissa - back then, the people living there were called Lapiths. Once, when he had invited them to a feast, the Centaurs in their drunkenness seized the Lapiths’ women, took them onto their horses and fled away to their home. Setting out from there, they waged war on them, descending upon the plains at night and laying ambushes; but at daybreak, having pillaged and burned, they always hastily returned to the mountains. And whenever they made their retreat in this manner, people watching them from afar could only make out a horse from behind without its neck, and a man’s body without his legs; and witnessing this strange spectacle they would say: “The Centaurs from Nephele have descended upon us!” It was that visual impression and this manner of speaking which prompted the creation of the incredible tale that a horse-man had been born by a cloud on the mountain.

While Palaiphatos’ etymology for the word “centaur” is more creative than accurate (as ancient etymologies often are; but in fairness it must be stated that the actual origin of the word is still obscure), the connection he establishes between the myth and the invention of horse-riding along with light cavalry tactics is very interesting, I think.

Hope you enjoyed this little curiosity about our dear BC’s ancestors! :hatoff:

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@Oxymandias : Excellent find!

Early civilizations were incredibly fond of human sacrifice for royal burials. They pop up in Egypt, Sumeria, Mesoamerica, China and more places still. Eventually, the practice seems to die out. Perhaps one factor is because odds are that armed killers will not allow themselves to be poisoned to follow their deceased ruler?

@Antenor : Thanks a lot for sharing! Lovely trick-or-treating.

Highly interesting tale indeed! Including the use of javelins on horseback. Light cavalry javelineers were a dime a dozen in antiquity; check out the Rome Total War I mod Europa Barbarorum for vivid examples based on research. The theory of centaurs being inspired by hard-drinking Scythian horse archers is another neat one.


Addendum to the Varangian Guard post above, in response to people over on Ulthuan.net. For lack of time I’ll just copy over it as replies:

SpellArcher wrote:

I’ve heard Eastern (Swedish, some connected with the Rus?) Vikings being described as Varangians before. Yes, of particular interest to the English. I believe many Anglo-Danish Carles served in the Guard even before Hastings, possibly even Harold Godwinson at some point. Definitely Hardrada of Norway of course. ‘The Viking’ indeed! I can heartily recommend anything about him by Henry Treece. It’s hard to overstate the Viking impact on Britain (and Ireland) and in particular the Danish impact on England. See also Tinchebrai 1106 for further repercussions of Hastings.

Oh yes, the original Varangians were Swedish Vikings, from the eastern coast of Uppland (the landscape north of Stockholm). The coastal regions there are still called Roslagen, meaning “rowing teams”, from which Rus and thus Russia is derived. The Rus were Swedish Vikings invited to settle down as a ruling caste due to endless internal squabbles among the Slavic peoples. This phenomenon is a lot more common in history than one may think, just check out northern Italian medieval cities’ penchant for inviting foreign lords, especially Venetians, to settle some long unresolved hot issue. The dynasty of Rurik were originally Swedish, and the names Olga and Oleg in Russian are derived from the Scandinavian names Helga and Hälge.

Indeed, lots of Norse served in the Varangian Guard. You’ll find Icelanders returning home in flashy clothes and expensive gear after a long stint in Miklagård. After the battle of Hastings (1066), lots of English served in the Varangian Guard, being warriors and nobles who fled their country after the Norman invasion.

The great climax of this vengeful Anglo-Saxon rage against the Normans was reached at the battle of Dyrrhachium (1081), when the Anglo-Varangian mercenaries led the pursuit of the fleeing Normans, but became separated from the main eastern Roman force and ended up massacred.

Indeed, agreed on all points. Great reading tips!

Artwork by Giuseppe Rava.

Prince of Spires wrote:

I love diving into history. It’s staggering how long the eastern roman empire managed to remain in power. Definitely one of the most long lived empires in history.

Staggering indeed. And against such odds! Their forces were usually enough to pursue defensive war on one front, and concentrate power for an offensive war on another front. But the Romans of the east usually faced no less than three simultaneous front, and sometimes more.

Coad wrote:

I was unaware of this particular guard unit. I also didn’t know Nero had a Germanic guard unit that stuck with him to the end. Now that’s loyalty.

Check out the Numerus Batavorum, recruited from the allied Batavian tribe, a reliable staple of auxiliaries for the Roman army in general. Also, watch I, Claudius for a TV-series who made use of these Germanic bodyguards.

Similar codes of honour and loyalty made Spanish bodyguards become prized. They served Caesar, for instance, but were dismissed upon his finishing the civil war since he did not want to appear like a tyrant: All tyrants had large bodyguard units to intimidate others and protect themselves from wronged citizens.

Artwork by Angus McBride.

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