[TOW] Daemonology, Elementalism or Dark Magic?

[Kuanor]

@Jasko

Well, if your level 4 sorcerer-prophet army general is sitting in your most expensive elite infantry, your opponent will have little choice but to react to this.

For the sake of victory points, you mean?
Because strategically, if most of his spells are only useful in CC, you’d be well advised to just starve him out.

@Jasko

Similarly, with the new casting rules (i.e. everything has to be in the front arc) and monsters having to wheel and getting only one 90° turn after movement, positioning of the caster is very important. That only leaves lone characters, either on foot or with flying carpet, and while those enjoy greater levels of freedom, it’s also quite risky.

What’s more, you can’t cast when “marching” your full 18" range. This makes flying casters a less straight-forward choice than combat chars on dragons, but maybe it does so in favour of flying combat casters.
(Having to pay the wheel is less of a problem considering the overall largely increased move distance a flying monster has compared with a running dwarf.)

Additional wounds and combat capability both hidden behind the character defensive equipment is probably still too good of a deal to miss out on in this edition.
Which would put a more expensive ranged caster on maybe a Lammasu, but if you try keeping him cheap (and save the points of the expensive equipment), leaving him in 3" around a unit is another option.

I’d like to see a Bale Taurus riding Sorc-Prophet work, as much as one buffing a mighty unit, but for the former one you’d have to really resolve the enemy caster as a main problem first (by either attacking it or staying very far away), and for the letter one, the casting rules probably should be different, not making every spell you know but don’t regularly cast into an expensive waste.

[Jasko]

Yes, I meant in terms of victory points. You can easily have a combined unit which is a third of your points cost. And it’s usually not like your opponent can claim the rest of your army and completely avoid that unit. At least not if you do your job right. Redirecting is usually done to get the enemy away from your weakest units, but you might as well use it to funnel everything towards your strongest one. Putting the sorc in a unit of fireglaives is another way. Hard to ignore the unit when you’re dishing out hits in the shooting phase. And of course steed of shadows. Suddenly your slow ironsworn unit can fly. There are always ways

[bonesaww666]

I do honestly believe Daemonology is a great lore its just one that favours units that can take full advantage of its aggressive nature, even the durations being until end of turn force it more into a proactive role.

I think Lammasu’s are going to be great for us, particularily with their breath weapon and lower point cost, as you want a monster to flank and tank the enemy they are charging or else you lose your ability to dispell.

We are in a strange spot with our Sorcerer Prophets being the only ones who can take a mount, while Lore Appropriate, its hardly optimized.

[Oxymandias]

Demonology feels right as well yeah? Like as in chaos dwarfs enslave and bend daemons to their will. Obviously not a gamey answer but it works well in my head

[Jasko]

Yeah absolutely. But I think it’s overall quite fitting. Dark magic and elementalism also have some merit. Fluff-wise we cannot complain imho.

[Jasko]

Another - and often overlooked - aspect of chosing the right lore are the casting values, especially if you only have a level 1/2 wizard. Many of us are enamoured by the idea of spectrally doppelgangering our enemies into oblivion, only to find that often times exactly the wizards who’d benefit the most from it (your Loremasters, your Shadowdancers, your Branchwraiths) then lack the magical prowess to cast a 9+ spell.

I made a small table for the eight lores with the casting values and colour-coded the spell categories for an easier overview. Some of you guys might find this helpful too. Overall it’s fairly balanced, but there are certain trends, e.g. Battle Magic is more on the low casting value side, whereas High Magic is rather difficult to cast (makes sense, if you ask me) Of course this gets further complex with the army-specific signature spells.

Here are just the three relevant lores for us. Daemonology is the most balanced, but it is around 9, so not easy for a level 1/2. Elementalism has the most affordable signature spell, while Dark Magic has two spells as 10+.

[Jasko]

Yet another important element to this is how you field your caster: Mounted on a monster, joining a unit or as a lone character. Lone characters benefit from a 360° vision arc, which is especially important if you want to buff your units. Casters joining a unit are bound by the units vision arc, so chances are high that your caster could only boost his own unit. And also he’s likely to get into combat, so you need something with a good assailment spell. A caster on a flying monster has a high degree of movement, but is also bound by his forward arc, but this can me mitigated a bit with the free 90° lumbering move. Let’s see in which areas the three lores are strongest and how which are therefore the best fits for the three types of casters.

Daemonology: With the exception of the Vortex of Chaos (which is still fine), all spells in Daemonology are really good. For me, it shines particularly in Enchantment, Hex and Conveyance.

Elementalism: The weak part is assailment, the other ones are quite good, especially Hex, but also Conveyance and Enchantment.

Dark Magic: Overall I’d consider it the weakest lore, but Hex and Vortex are interesting.

Caster on monstrous mount: With this build, your caster will likely be on his own, flying at the flanks or in front of the main army, usually facing the enemy. Especially in case of a Bale Taurus, this caster will likely see combat! With this build you do not aim at boosting your army. We’re looking for particularly potent hex, missile, vortex and assailment spells. From our available lores, I’d say Elementalism is the most useful one in these categories. Storm Call and Plague of Rust weaken the enemy, the vortex blocks line of sight and Wind Blast has S5 and pushes back the enemy. From our signature spells you could go for Ash Storm which, thanks to your monstrous mount, you may be able to cast from behind enemy lines and affect multiple units. or Curse of Hashut against T3/4 armies. The assailment spell is not very good though. Word of Pain and Phantasmagoria from Dark Magic are interesting too, but overall I find Dark Magic the weakest of the three lores. Daemonology is tricky. On a Bale Taurus you could go all in with the Enchantment and buff yourself into a truly fearsome fighter, especially with Daemonic Vessel.

Caster in a unit: The most restricted in terms of vision arc. Enchantments and Conveyance spells can most likely only be cast on his own unit. Daemonology probably takes the cake with its two excellent enchantment spells (Daemonic Vessel can even be cast when the unit is already in combat) and Steed of Shadows. And the assailment spell is better too. Unfortunately our signature assailment spells is quite weak, might be better served with Ash Storm or, situationally, Curse of Hashut.

Lone character (bonus point for Arabyan Carpet): Daemonology and Elementalism again, it’s really a toss-up. Daemonology’s Daemonic Vessel is lost, but both lores are still very good at giving a unit a crucial buff or taking away something from the enemy.

[MiSiO]

Lamassu with Daemonology (18" bolt), Ruby ring and flamer?

Lvl 2 feels enough in that compositon.