# \[TOW\] Let's get competitive
**URL:** https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270
**Category:** Army List and Gaming Discussion
**Created:** [15 February 2024 20:17 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270 "2024-02-15T20:17:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [13 August 2024 12:06 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/222 "2024-08-13T12:06:46Z")
Bale is better but fully kited pit prophet cost ,460+ and warboss on Wyvern, 360.
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [13 August 2024 12:15 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/223 "2024-08-13T12:15:03Z")
Sure, was just comparing combat prowess.
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [13 August 2024 15:58 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/224 "2024-08-13T15:58:28Z")
I go 50/50 GW/2HW, mostly because that’s how my models are built, but I believe 50/50 GW/shield is the optimal build.
Additional hand weapon, even with Choppa, is oftentimes a whole lot of nothing. With furious charge, you may get a whole lot of extra attacks anyway, just more powerful ones. Wide rank (ofc) and everyone has 3+ armour, half has great weapons. Balance of defense and attack instead of full on offense where 50% works against soft targets and 50% works against bigger bads.
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [13 August 2024 19:08 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/225 "2024-08-13T19:08:38Z")
They have 3+ AS against shooting as long as the majority has shields. As soon as sufficient models die, it switches between 3+ and 4+. I’m close combat it’s whoever is in the fighting rank.
I mean if you have enough points, give everyone shields. Can always decide to use them in combat
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [13 August 2024 21:04 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/226 "2024-08-13T21:04:45Z")
50% shields, with the clarification from the faq, will result in 3+ save against shooting, since you take off models as evenly as possible - just start by taking off one without a shield.
In close combat you’d keep a wide rank and put half in as shields. Boom 3+ save for as long as there’s enough orcs that carry shields. I guess if the enemy has different initiative steps, you might sometimes revert to 4+ if some shield guys die, but still. Edit: ugh, as a matter of fact, I guess you’d have to roll the saves individually, and either go back and forth or push more shields into the fighting rank to begin with 🤔 Motley crew really has the potential to slow the action to a grind - also a reason I stick with just the different weapons.
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [13 August 2024 22:23 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/227 "2024-08-13T22:23:41Z")
> [@Vacationist](#):
>
> 50% shields, with the clarification from the faq, will result in 3+ save against shooting, since you take off models as evenly as possible - just start by taking off one without a shield.
Yeah that checks out.
> [@Vacationist](#):
>
> Motley crew really has the potential to slow the action to a grind
Yeah tbh that’s also an important point for me too: I just don’t want to make a whole operation out of it. Everyone gets additional habe weapons but two guys in the first rank. That’s a level of complexity I can handle
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### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 07:26 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/228 "2024-08-14T07:26:31Z")
Ordered some Black Orcs. We will see how they do.
I must build a 2k list and I lack some units so I was thinking 2 prophets. Lvl4. One on lammasu, one on Bale Taurus. My problem is that their items overlap. Things like Amulet of Protection… Any Idea how to build then to avoid those problems?
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 08:10 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/229 "2024-08-14T08:10:28Z")
Ward saves are hard to come by. Can go Armour of Destiny. If you have to chose, put the Ward on the Bale Taurus, he’ll see more combat and the Lammasu has his own way of protection.
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 08:16 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/230 "2024-08-14T08:16:27Z")
Build the Bale Taurus with 3x mantle of stone for t9 🙂 He’ll be vulnerable to poison though, so if you have any skink-spamming lizardmen players in your group, you might want to reconsider.
In any case, he’ll be immune to s3 attacks, which is sort of crazy 😁
I’m thinking of putting just a daemonsmith, lvl 2 with the daemonology signature spell and a ruby ring, on a lamassu with breath attack 🤔 Fly outside of dispel range and rain sorcerous missiles and breath on your enemies. Might be worth something. He’s 255pts minimum, though. Idk.
As I see it, two prophets lvl 4 on great hunking beasts is overkill for sure.
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### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 08:41 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/231 "2024-08-14T08:41:39Z")
I was thinking a similar thing. I put +5 armour on my Bale Taurus (he already has fire 3+ ward). My Lammasu is a support piece with his elementalism. Bale on the other hand could use daemonology?
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 08:43 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/232 "2024-08-14T08:43:59Z")
Yes, Elementalism on Lammasu and Daemonology on Bale Taurus is the way to go I think.
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### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 08:46 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/233 "2024-08-14T08:46:20Z")
Well with I of 2 they will be unable to fight in combat with no Initiative value :smiley:
I do like the lvl 2 idea but my Ruby Ring is already taken by a Khan!
Our Skin spammer is our TOP1 player at the moment lol
It is an overkill and I would like to replace Bale for cheaper Wyvern BUT I have to paint one first so… Next time.
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 15:02 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/234 "2024-08-14T15:02:02Z")
This forum is the only place I’ve heard the notion of initiative 0 taking you out of the combat order. Confer with your TO how to rule it. General consensus is that initiative 0 is just initiative 0, or more specifically, i2 with a -3 modifier.
Yeah so if there are skinks I’d kit the Bale Taurus with either silvered steel or meteoric armour as well as the talisman of protection.
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 15:05 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/235 "2024-08-14T15:05:45Z")
> [@Vacationist](#):
>
> This forum is the only place I’ve heard the notion of initiative 0 taking you out of the combat order.
Just recently I’ve sent it again as a FAQ to GW.
> [@Vacationist](#):
>
> General consensus is that initiative 0 is just initiative 0
So this came up in tournaments you’ve played? And it was decided like this? Or between whom was the consensus?
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 16:57 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/236 "2024-08-14T16:57:54Z")
> [@Jasko](#):
>
> So this came up in tournaments you’ve played? And it was decided like this? Or between whom was the consensus?
Everyone with whom I discussed it (except you and maybe one other on this forum), and I assume in that tournament @ULFHEDNIR mentioned with the triple mantle Taurus. It’s a can of worms, to say the least, so let’s not open it again, but still: if I were to decide I wanted a triple mantle Taurus, I’d still clear it with the TO before attending.
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [14 August 2024 17:21 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/237 "2024-08-14T17:21:28Z")
> [@Vacationist](#):
>
> It’s a can of worms, to say the least, so let’s not open it again
Hahahaha true 😂
> [@Vacationist](#):
>
> if I were to decide I wanted a triple mantle Taurus, I’d still clear it with the TO before attending.
That’s sound advice.
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### Author:  [@Lordofchaos](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Lordofchaos)
#### Post date: [16 August 2024 18:51 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/238 "2024-08-16T18:51:49Z")
> [@MiSiO](#):
>
> So either 2WH+HW/Shield of Great weapon + HW/shield… the banner that gives orcs frenzy is also nice too if You want great weapons!
>
> Also - Warboss - I was thinking a Wyvern BUT chariot has some crazy rules. D6+1 Impact Hits with S6… etc. Wyvern has only 3 attacks so chariot is more offensive. Right?
My first thought was also a Wyvern, I just have not had one fall into my lap yet for the right price. It will come.
Just got my Boar boy chariot done, it IS sweet. Have not got to run down anybody YET. but I will give it a good test drive.
In process of mounting one on a giant wolf and a Boar.
I like to keep my tactical options open.
It was also a thought to stick one on a magic carpet, but I feel that would be a bit out of character.
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### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [16 August 2024 21:16 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/239 "2024-08-16T21:16:55Z")
I just got a printed carpet to mount my caster on. It was done from a standard.
I should havey old Wyvern printed soon as well.
BTW I feel like Choas Dwarfs are constantly outnumbered in terms of drops. Is that a problem for you guys?
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 08:15 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/240 "2024-08-17T08:15:51Z")
> [@MiSiO](#):
>
> BTW I feel like Choas Dwarfs are constantly outnumbered in terms of drops. Is that a problem for you guys?
Drops?
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### Author:  [@Zoddtheimmortal](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Zoddtheimmortal)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 09:20 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/241 "2024-08-17T09:20:30Z")
Doesnt bother me due to my ambushing sneaky gits that always seem to arrive turn 2
Fav unit by far!
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