# \[TOW\] Let's get competitive
**URL:** https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270
**Category:** Army List and Gaming Discussion
**Created:** [15 February 2024 20:17 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270 "2024-02-15T20:17:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 13
### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 18:40 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/243 "2024-08-17T18:40:35Z")
Units you deploy. When You out dropped your units can get nad match ups or you opponent can avoid your best counters.
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### Author:  [@Garack](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Garack)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 18:41 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/244 "2024-08-17T18:41:23Z")
Has anyone brought up the Sword of Swiftness with 2 Mantles?
The rules state pretty clear imo, that a modell with any profile 0 cant basicly not commit to a test or action which rely on that.
The sword raises the initiative to 10. But the question might be, is it really worth to attack rather than having toughness 8, or even 9 with taurus. Where is the tipping point when the added bonus doesn’t benifit you anymore with the strenght thats attacking?
strength 6 needs a 5+ to wound against thoughness 7, everything below wounds on 6. So what is the enemy to face with it? Maybe everyone should consider this aswell when thinking about whats possible.
Example:
Sorcerer-Prophet [445 Pkte.]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour
- Bale Taurus
- 3x Mantle of Stone
- Daemonology
Base Toughnes 5+3 (mantle) +1 (Bale Taurus)= Toughtness 9, which can only hit with minimal strength 4 and only on a roll of 6 till Strengh 8.
Strength 9&10 wound on 3 tho.
But no other item which is of a real more benifiting use. And he gets extremly expencive just with this setup.
I would like to know, what you think about the Hellshard as kind of a trap inside a wolfunit. The Khan can call for a duell and explode and take a charakter with him. In the 8. this was played with a strength potion and firststrike or something.
edith: For drops you get a few units Gitz for 30pts or Ballistas for 45pts. Exellent cheap waste of “Drops”.
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### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 18:41 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/245 "2024-08-17T18:41:35Z")
They have limited range but Has ton of attacks. I really like them. I even consider 3-4 units 🙂
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### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 19:02 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/246 "2024-08-17T19:02:13Z")
Problem with 3 mantles is that this is a TOs rulony to allows this.
Hellshard is a good concept. I plan using it on a unit of cutthroats or on wolfriders for sure. Very good Item.
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### Author:  [@Garack](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Garack)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 19:26 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/247 "2024-08-17T19:26:51Z")
Is a Hobgoblin Khan in the case of Wollopa’s One Hit Wunda counted as a Goblin?
_ **Notes:** _
| Range | Strength | Armour Piercing | Special Rules |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| Combat | 10 | -3 | Magical AttacksStrike First |
_Goblin and Night Goblin Bosses only. Single use. Once per game, during the first round of combat, the wielder of this weapon can use it with this profile. At all other times, this weapon counts as a hand weapon with the_ [Magical Attacks](https://tow.whfb.app/special-rules/magical-attacks) _special rule._
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 20:00 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/248 "2024-08-17T20:00:31Z")
Hobgoblin khan cannot access any of the magic items from O&G, question whether he is a goblin or not is moot.
I’m with you with the interpretation on Initiative 0, but I fear we’re the minority 😅 please check [this big old thread](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-stone-mantle-and-initiative-or-weapon-skill-dropping-under-1/26463) for the whole discussion about it.
T9 is great, just beware of poisoned attacks or models with monster Slayer USR - they’re going for that 6 to wound anyway.
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 20:01 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/249 "2024-08-17T20:01:17Z")
Ah ok. Meh, tbh I’d rather have the +1 on the roll so see who gets first turn.
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### Author:  [@Garack](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Garack)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 20:25 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/250 "2024-08-17T20:25:32Z")
Oh, I missed that, no question then.
I dont want to get away from the topic when asking, but ive read a bit about the Black Orc on Wyvern. My attempt would be like this:
Black Orc Warboss [367 Pkte.]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Wyvern
- 5x ‘Eadbuttin’ 'At
- Sword of Swiftness
When charging this gives
**5** x S6 AP-2 impact,
**4** WS7 S5 Attacks before anything else happens
Wasted potential or a thing worth trying? Sorry, Im just coming back from a longer pause.
And ofc it depends on the list. My thought was something with high mobility and the goal is to get into close combat and deliver to many targets for shooting everything.
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 20:51 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/251 "2024-08-17T20:51:39Z")
‘Eadbuttin’ 'at’s (that’s a lot of apostrophes 🙈) don’t stack. Rules that alter the result of a dice roll stack, like armor piercing, -bane, etc. Impact hits don’t stack. You can take 5 hats, sure, but you’ll only get 1 impact hit, still.
Some people think otherwise, but the arguments don’t hold up, imo. -2 ap on that impact hit (when on a wyvern) kind of makes sense, I think, though. Interesting stuff.
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### Author:  [@Garack](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Garack)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 21:25 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/252 "2024-08-17T21:25:57Z")
Well, after looking it up, it stands in the erratra. A rider with impact hits does it seperately.
Btw, i am searching for the entry, but like any other season everything things to be random organised in the book. Where do I find if and how much Inpact hits do mosters do when charging? Meaning the Wyvern, its not supported with blades or something in the special rules. Is there “only” stomping?
And if stacked hats work or not is propably up to a judge, but without common sense its totaly ledgit. Also it adds to the lore!
Its not about stacking the modifier, but adding more hits.
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [17 August 2024 21:49 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/253 "2024-08-17T21:49:53Z")
Rulebook, p. 165
"Unless noted otherwise, if the effect of a special rule in some way alters a characteristic, the result of a dice roll, or any other value (such as a model’s armour value), that effect is cumulative. This means that the effects of duplicate versions of the same rule combine together, increasing its effect.
For example, if a model is under the effects of a spell that grants it Armour Bane (2) and carries a weapon that has Armour Bane (1), the model would be considered to have Armour Bane (3)."
Impact hits are neither a modifier, or a value - it’s an amount of impact hits, thus it doesn’t stack.
On a different note: I just won bronze in a local 10-man tournament! Report and learnings [here](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-tournament-report-2k/26887)
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [18 August 2024 08:28 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/254 "2024-08-18T08:28:04Z")
> [@Garack](#):
>
> Where do I find if and how much Inpact hits do mosters do when charging? Meaning the Wyvern, its not supported with blades or something in the special rules. Is there “only” stomping?
Sorry, forgot to reply to this. Impact hits and stomps are now rules linked to the separate unit entries. A behemoth may have the thunderstomp rule that gives its stomps ap2 against most things, but if the behemoth in question doesn’t have stomps in the first place, this rule doesn’t have an effect (like the Bloodthirster, for instance). Wyverns have no impact hits, but they have a venomous sting that has always strikes first, so that kind of functions like a pseudo impact hit on the charge. Besides that, it has D3 stomps.
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### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [19 August 2024 09:14 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/255 "2024-08-19T09:14:14Z")
I plan to use a 349 point Warboss with Trollhide Trousers, Effigy Of Mork, Charmed Shield. With Great Weapon. I really like the idea of a Warboss within a Storm of Ash. -2 to hit.
I really like the 6 Impact Hits build! This is fun!
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### Author:  [@MiSiO](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/MiSiO)
#### Post date: [19 August 2024 09:17 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/256 "2024-08-19T09:17:36Z")
> [@Vacationist](#):
>
> Rulebook, p. 165
> "Unless noted otherwise, if the effect of a special rule in some way alters a characteristic, the result of a dice roll, or any other value (such as a model’s armour value), that effect is cumulative. This means that the effects of duplicate versions of the same rule combine together, increasing its effect.
>
> For example, if a model is under the effects of a spell that grants it Armour Bane (2) and carries a weapon that has Armour Bane (1), the model would be considered to have Armour Bane (3)."
>
> Impact hits are neither a modifier, or a value - it’s an amount of impact hits, thus it doesn’t stack.
Does it mean a Lamassu can get Magic Resistance (4) from Dark Forged Weapon?
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [19 August 2024 09:18 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/257 "2024-08-19T09:18:29Z")
MR is not cumulative
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### Author:  [@Vacationist](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Vacationist)
#### Post date: [19 August 2024 09:20 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/258 "2024-08-19T09:20:26Z")
Magic resistance in particular is expressly not cumulative, it’s afaik the only rule that differs from the norm, so no dice.
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### Author:  [@Anima](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Anima)
#### Post date: [21 August 2024 21:28 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/259 "2024-08-21T21:28:18Z")
Other topic, does anyone of you tried to combine _Blood of Hashut_ with the _Sword of Striking_? 15 extra points to increase the change to deliver does d6 hits?
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [22 August 2024 05:45 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/260 "2024-08-22T05:45:07Z")
Personally I’d consider only attacks made with the _Sword of Striking_ itself to have the +1WS, not the Blood of Hashut.
But even if: I mean sure, against a WS5 opponent it would help this one time, but I’d guess I’d mainly use it against someone with a higher WS anyway? Would be a different story if it were +1 to hit. And after the attack is done, it’s really not a good magic weapon. You don’t even benefit from _Ensorcelled Weapon_ anymore.
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### Author:  [@Anima](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Anima)
#### Post date: [22 August 2024 10:24 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/261 "2024-08-22T10:24:51Z")
isn’t it a +1 to hit modifier?
I am with you that we could read it as attacks with the _Sword of Striking_ get the modifier.
But the _Sword’s_ special rule states that in the _combat phase_ the wielder gets the modifier.
And wielding does not mean using it. The _Blood’s_ rules state that in combat instead of making normal attacks I make a special attack, but I am still the wielder of the _Sword of Striking_ for example I need to delcare which weapon I wield for the full duration of combat (in case of HW/S or GW) the moment the combat starts.
The O&G weapen _Da Akrit Axe_ explicitly grants the wielder of the weapon the rerolls to hit if he is using the Axe.
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### Author:  [@Jasko](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/u/Jasko)
#### Post date: [22 August 2024 12:30 UTC](https://discourse.chaos-dwarfs.com/t/tow-lets-get-competitive/26270/262 "2024-08-22T12:30:05Z")
> [@Anima](#):
>
> isn’t it a +1 to hit modifier?
lol, sorry thought +1WS 😂 should have looked it up before commenting. Well in this case it’s not a bad combo. Good chance to get it on a 3+ then.
But yeah, that’s why I said it’s how I would treat it. Rules state you get the bonus in the combat phase, so RAW you’re right. Just logically doesn’t make any sense to me.
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