Me and a friend are coming back after the 5th ed so we have to relearn the game, we decided then to play a friendly match.
He has wood elves, no idea what he will play, knowing him he will put a mage lord and some scouts, then for the rest we will try to see bit all the phases of the game for relearn it, so I guess we will see magic range n fight in equal portion.
I came up with this list
Daemonsmith 95
lvl 2 35
scroll 25
155
30 warriors 12x30 300
FC 32
392
25 hobs 4x25 100
bow 25
125
25 hobs 4x25 100
bow 25
125
Rocket 100
Rocket 100
For a total of 997 pt
I thought in the start of using 4 bulls with shields and great weapon just for have a +4 armor, but I guess they will be drilled way too fast.
So here was even my idea of deploy:
What do you people think?
PS the idea of creating ranks of 10x2 for archers was that like this 10 at the time can shoot instead of the usual front 5?
I remember time ago there was the “Open Formation” giving you no ranks bonus but the entire unit was able to shoot? Or do I remember wrong?
I like the foundation of your list a lot. Hobgoblin bows will actually make an impact on low armor T3 elves and the deathshriekers are game winners. The big block of infernal guard aren’t going anywhere, but I don’t think your opponent is going to let you use them. No way he is front charging that brick and I don’t see him letting you pick your charges with our low movement, especially since this list is made to fight wood elves. I think going with fireglaives in a smaller unit may give you some extra versatility and it will let you get them in the game with their significant (vs a 1000 points of elves) shooting. Possible variant list below:
Daemonsmith
Earthing rod (he may die if you miscast and fail the toughness check)
Enchanted Shield
Level 2 wizard
160
20 Fireglaives
Full command
Gleaming pennant (no BSB, 5 points of insurance)
Naptha bombs
382
25 hobgoblins with bows 129
Musician (quick reform from wide formation)
25 hobgoblins with bows 129
Musician
Deathshrieker 100
Deathshrieker 100
Total 1000
Just thinking out loud here, so there may be some less than optimal choices in this list, but it’s fairly similar to your list and I think it may give you some additional advantages over the woodies. I would love to know how it goes
PS: It looks like you over charged yourself for your infernal guard unit, unless you meant to make them a 30 man unit. Then the points are correct, but my concerns for this formidable block remain the same as indicated above.
2 rockets against woodelves at 1000 points and the game might be over before anything is learnt. I would take a unit of bullcentuars, something not as strong, if you are just learning.
Daemonsmith Earthing rod (he may die if you miscast and fail the toughness check) Enchanted Shield Level 2 wizard 160
20 Fireglaives Full command Gleaming pennant (no BSB, 5 points of insurance) Naptha bombs 382
25 hobgoblins with bows 129 Musician (quick reform from wide formation)
25 hobgoblins with bows 129 Musician
Deathshrieker 100 Deathshrieker 100
Total 1000
TheLazySamurai
Yeah I made a mistake writing, they were 25 in the start, then i put 30, the idea was to have something hard to resist their fire with 2+ armor.
The naphta bomb is something that has only the campion? because on the codex it says "the overseer" who the hell is the overseer? :o If I get shoot at do I still benefit from the shield? Or do I have only the fireglaive like this? Can I still choose in a fight to use 1hweapon + shield?
for the Hobs, that Wide Formation you said means that they can all shoot or something? Or only the 1st rank? How's that? I'm really rusted even on my old 5/6th ed rules.
2 rockets against woodelves at 1000 points and the game might be over before anything is learnt. I would take a unit of bullcentuars, something not as strong, if you are just learning.
sam585
I thought in the start of using 3 or 4 bulls with fc, shield for resist their shooting and great weapon for fights, things are that I think they will end up being gatling'd to deat. Plus I have no idea how to deploy them and how to use, because they will be the only unit ready to charge being alone in the front ranks. Lil help here?
Daemonsmith Earthing rod (he may die if you miscast and fail the toughness check) Enchanted Shield Level 2 wizard 160
20 Fireglaives Full command Gleaming pennant (no BSB, 5 points of insurance) Naptha bombs 382
25 hobgoblins with bows 129 Musician (quick reform from wide formation)
25 hobgoblins with bows 129 Musician
Deathshrieker 100 Deathshrieker 100
Total 1000
TheLazySamurai
Yeah I made a mistake writing, they were 25 in the start, then i put 30, the idea was to have something hard to resist their fire with 2+ armor.
The naphta bomb is something that has only the campion? because on the codex it says "the overseer" who the hell is the overseer? :o If I get shoot at do I still benefit from the shield? Or do I have only the fireglaive like this? Can I still choose in a fight to use 1hweapon + shield?
for the Hobs, that Wide Formation you said means that they can all shoot or something? Or only the 1st rank? How's that? I'm really rusted even on my old 5/6th ed rules.
Loidrial
A few rule clarifications:
Naptha bombs can be given to your unit champion. They aren't great, but because a unit makes a stand and shoot charge reaction when the shortest range weapon can shoot, this allows for the rest of a fireglaive or blunderbuss unit to shoot at close range and avoid the -1 penalty for being at long range.
You get to keep your shield if you give your infernal guard weapon upgrades. So you get a 3+ save vs shooting, but if you give them a weapon upgrade that can be used in combat, then they must use that weapon. In the case of fireglaives, they can shoot, use their shields vs shooting attacks and then they must use the two handed fireglaive when they get stuck in.
The quick reform is useful because it allows your hobgoblins to be in two long rows maximizing their firepower until you know combat is imminent. You can shoot in 2 ranks so having 20 shots per unit is easily possible. The turn before you get charged you quick reform your unit to 5x5. This still allows 10 hobgoblins to shoot and you have 3+ ranks to help your combat res.
Naptha bombs can be given to your unit champion. They aren't great, but because a unit makes a stand and shoot charge reaction when the shortest range weapon can shoot, this allows for the rest of a fireglaive or blunderbuss unit to shoot at close range and avoid the -1 penalty for being at long range.
TheLazySamurai
So the bomb has 6" range, this mean I can stand n shoot using 3" as max range?
Like, someone charges me from 3-4-5-6"+ I can always stand n shoot with the whole because of the bomb? Wow that's a great trick.
You get to keep your shield if you give your infernal guard weapon upgrades. So you get a 3+ save vs shooting, but if you give them a weapon upgrade that can be used in combat, then they must use that weapon. In the case of fireglaives, they can shoot, use their shields vs shooting attacks and then they must use the two handed fireglaive when they get stuck in.
TheLazySamurai
What if instead of the blunderbusses? Do they just fight with sword+shield and shoot with the trumpet, right?
The quick reform is useful because it allows your hobgoblins to be in two long rows maximizing their firepower until you know combat is imminent. You can shoot in 2 ranks so having 20 shots per unit is easily possible. The turn before you get charged you quick reform your unit to 5x5. This still allows 10 hobgoblins to shoot and you have 3+ ranks to help your combat res.
TheLazySamurai
Wait so now no matter what, the first 2 ranks always shoot? Am I missing something?
You are just saying to have 2 longest ranks as possible and fit there all my hobs (in this case 12x2 +1) and then before getting charged put them back in 5xall the ranks i can create?
Changing formation counts as movement? Can I still shoot after that? I guess I will get eventually the -1 for moving? Bow range is still 12" right?
I guess with this formation I should just sit in the end of the table waiting for him to come?
Naptha bombs can be given to your unit champion. They aren't great, but because a unit makes a stand and shoot charge reaction when the shortest range weapon can shoot, this allows for the rest of a fireglaive or blunderbuss unit to shoot at close range and avoid the -1 penalty for being at long range.
TheLazySamurai
So the bomb has 6" range, this mean I can stand n shoot using 3" as max range?
Like, someone charges me from 3-4-5-6"+ I can always stand n shoot with the whole because of the bomb? Wow that's a great trick.
You get to keep your shield if you give your infernal guard weapon upgrades. So you get a 3+ save vs shooting, but if you give them a weapon upgrade that can be used in combat, then they must use that weapon. In the case of fireglaives, they can shoot, use their shields vs shooting attacks and then they must use the two handed fireglaive when they get stuck in.
TheLazySamurai
What if instead of the blunderbusses? Do they just fight with sword+shield and shoot with the trumpet, right?
The quick reform is useful because it allows your hobgoblins to be in two long rows maximizing their firepower until you know combat is imminent. You can shoot in 2 ranks so having 20 shots per unit is easily possible. The turn before you get charged you quick reform your unit to 5x5. This still allows 10 hobgoblins to shoot and you have 3+ ranks to help your combat res.
TheLazySamurai
Wait so now no matter what, the first 2 ranks always shoot? Am I missing something?
You are just saying to have 2 longest ranks as possible and fit there all my hobs (in this case 12x2 +1) and then before getting charged put them back in 5xall the ranks i can create?
Changing formation counts as movement? Can I still shoot after that? I guess I will get eventually the -1 for moving? Bow range is still 12" right?
I guess with this formation I should just sit in the end of the table waiting for him to come?
Loidrial
The naphtha bombs will be fired at the 6" range because this is when they are eligible to fire. Remember, you only get to stand and shoot when the charging unit is outside of their basic movement when they begin the charge, unless the weapon is quick to fire.
Blunderbuss are great and you still get to fight with hand weapon and shield in close combat. Solid choice.
You can always fire in two ranks per the basic rules in the shooting section of the BRB. Swift reform allows you to fire after changing formation, but you do get the -1 penalty for moving that turn. Also, bows have a range of 24" so take advantage of that and kill his chaff with the hobgoblins.
The naphtha bombs will be fired at the 6" range because this is when they are eligible to fire. Remember, you only get to stand and shoot when the charging unit is outside of their basic movement when they begin the charge, unless the weapon is quick to fire.
Blunderbuss are great and you still get to fight with hand weapon and shield in close combat. Solid choice.
You can always fire in two ranks per the basic rules in the shooting section of the BRB. Swift reform allows you to fire after changing formation, but you do get the -1 penalty for moving that turn. Also, bows have a range of 24" so take advantage of that and kill his chaff with the hobgoblins.
The Lazy Samurai
TheLazySamurai
Ok so stand n shoot works if he is on more than half of his charge movement? So I dont get the purpose of the bomb if no matter what I will shoot with the fireglaives O.o
"section of the BRB" what's this? So Shoot with 2 ranks, no matter what. Good. Great. I imagned the -1 for change formation.
He will probably have
2 wardancers
2 archers
1 mage
1 fight hero
The naphtha bombs will be fired at the 6" range because this is when they are eligible to fire. Remember, you only get to stand and shoot when the charging unit is outside of their basic movement when they begin the charge, unless the weapon is quick to fire.
Blunderbuss are great and you still get to fight with hand weapon and shield in close combat. Solid choice.
You can always fire in two ranks per the basic rules in the shooting section of the BRB. Swift reform allows you to fire after changing formation, but you do get the -1 penalty for moving that turn. Also, bows have a range of 24" so take advantage of that and kill his chaff with the hobgoblins.
The Lazy Samurai
TheLazySamurai
Ok so stand n shoot works if he is on more than half of his charge movement? So I dont get the purpose of the bomb if no matter what I will shoot with the fireglaives O.o
"section of the BRB" what's this? So Shoot with 2 ranks, no matter what. Good. Great. I imagned the -1 for change formation.
He will probably have
2 wardancers
2 archers
1 mage
1 fight hero
Loidrial
The purpose of the bomb is to help the stand and shoot charge reaction. Without the bomb, you would shoot whenever he came within 18" (for fireglaives) of the unit and you would have a -1 long range penalty in addition to the -1 penalty for stand and shoot. The bomb allows the unit to wait to shoot until all weapons are in range, in this case 6", so the fireglaves will fire at their close range. This negates some of the negative to hit modifiers during the charge reaction resulting in more elf corpses. ;)
I will need to play friday vs another Wood Elf, again 1k. Came up with this.
Daemonsmith Fire 160 pt enchanted rod, enchanted shield, 2 lvl
15 IG with fireglaive + muso and banner 275 pt 20 hobs with bow + shield + muso 114
4 bulls + muso and banner 175 pt 4 bulls + muso and banner 175 pt
1 Rocket 100pt
Total 999pt
Opinions?
My idea was to keep the hero casting fireball from the warmachine with the hobs next to him Move slowly with the IG while shooting something at him while I charge on both sides asap with the bulls
Nice list. The bulls will be able to catch some elves - they are fast and they hide.
Try to find room for a Gleaming Pennant on a BC unit.
I would drop fireglaives, they wont hit antthing. For the 75 points go for more HW/S IG and banner of swiftness.
Bloodbeard
My idea was to use the glaives mostly because i'm already slow and i NEED to go in melee, because he will play mostly archers, so the idea was to try to destroy some from afar.
I will try to make some change with the advices you gave me
EDIT:so this came out, slightly different
Daemonsmith Fire 160 pt
enchanted rod, enchanted shield, 2 lvl
20 IG + muso and banner 260 pt
22 hobs with bow + shield + muso 125 (shall I deploy them in 2 ranks of 11?)
4 bulls + muso and banner gleaming pennant 5pt 180 pt
4 bulls + muso and banner 175 pt (both in 2*2 formation, right?)
Now I was thinking, instead of leaving the mage on the back of the field with the rocket casting fireball and eventual reroll on the misfire, wouldnt be better to make a castellan for the same amount of points?
160, eventually i can remove 2 hobs for a total of 171 pts and have him in the block of dwarves rushing for the victory.
It is only 1k pts so magic shouldnt be this much incisive. (my opponent probably will play a lvl 2 mage)
At 1000 pts against t3 no armor long range elves some fireballs can win you the game!
And the reroll is a must. No misfite? Reroll scatter for a 1/3 hit chance! And hitting with a death shrieker causes a 5" template hit. You are fighting a skirmish army.
At 1000 pts against t3 no armor long range elves some fireballs can win you the game!
And the reroll is a must. No misfite? Reroll scatter for a 1/3 hit chance! And hitting with a death shrieker causes a 5" template hit. You are fighting a skirmish army.
Castellan is a bad choice here.
Bloodbeard
Yeah, on the train back home I was thinking the same things. This is why I didnt even bother to put gw on bulls, str4 is already enough vs r3 elves.
Plus, I wonder how will he try to wound my bulls with r5 and armor 3 with his whatever will play.
This sunday I will play again the same wood elf guy, he changed basically 1 unit in his army.
Last time I noticed that:
1) hobs were pointless, remaining at 6" from the hero for not test on animosity, they were always in long range, shooting basically on those skirmish units he had, so hit on 6+…waste of 100something pts
2) I played bad the bulls, I would have love to see them working better, I was thinking to use units of 4, but playing them this time in a frontal rank so I can get the +1 for that in a fight instead of the 2*2
I was thinking to add a extra weapon to them so 3A at S4, I should decimate those lil elves (last time they were just naked, so 2A S4 and their Armor3+)
3) The block of dwarves did NOTHING. They were too slow but unkillable for him, ok good I saved 280 or so pts, but they didnt do anything by far.
Even dropping 5 of them for adding a fireglaive will be pointless. Same reason of hobs, hit on 6.
4) I cant put 1 khan on wolf. Aside that I wouldnt know how to use it, it will be drilled in 1 turn by all those arrows.
You put the khan in the dwarfs. Give the dwarfs fireglaives, so they can shoot at light cavalry which threatens your war machines. You draw him out when you need him. Until that hes save from arrows. <br>Take more warmachines and less bulls. Second shrieker or magma. <br>(Just remember: Skirmishers should stand about a half inch from each other not 1 1/2 inches - sometimes people "forget" this ;-), especially against templates). <br>Hobgoblins did their job. They kept the opponent at bay, thats great.
If you have more warmachines he`s got more pressure to kill them and either he will try to get to you or risk loosing by a lucky shot from a rocket/cannon.
You put the khan in the dwarfs. Give the dwarfs fireglaives, so they can shoot at light cavalry which threatens your war machines. You draw him out when you need him. Until that he`s save from arrows.
Take more warmachines and less bulls. Second shrieker or magma.
(Just remember: Skirmishers should stand about a half inch from each other not 1 1/2 inches - sometimes people "forget" this ;-), especially against templates).
Hobgoblins did their job. They kept the opponent at bay, that`s great.
If you have more warmachines he`s got more pressure to kill them and either he will try to get to you or risk loosing by a lucky shot from a rocket/cannon.
TheHoodedMan
He will not have cavalry, he doesnt phisically have it, he will play a lot of lil skirmish units of 5/6 models to shoot me from afar, some scouts behind my warmachines and stuff.
can i put the khan on wolf in a foot infantry? how will it works with the ranks? beacuse the base sizes are different.
I dont even know what to charge with him cuz he has only small stuff.
I will try to make a unit of 6 bulls maybe for great impact on everything and make some space for 2 rokets, I will check the list tonight back home again and update here.
spear shield light armor 60 pts (even if I wouldnt know how to use it properly. Any help here with him?)
20 hobs bow+shield + muso 114 pts
20 IG fc + banner +1m 287 pts (last time they couldnt reach anything, like this I might be able to charge on turn 3)
4 Bulls fc dual wield + gleaming pennant 180 pts
2 Rockets 200 pts
TOTAL 996
What do you people think? I need some serious help because I’m not so satisfied. Especially with the hobs, I feel like removing them and use that 114 pts for something else
