[Archive] 2,500 LoA aggressive style army list....blog....rant.....something....bacon?

saurus:

Hello everyone!

Its has been roughly 3 years since I was last active on the CDO forums, but it’s good to see that some of the old school crew are still about.

So I am taking a hiatus from my Tomb Kings army and getting back into the Chaos Dwarfs. The last time I was playing this wonderful race I was using the Indy GT book, which I had a lot of fun with. That said, the new book looks like it has a lot of great elements to it, with the usual GW components of overpowered, underpowered as well as appropriately costed units. :smiley:

In this thread I will be posting my 2,500pt list as well as game results and my post battle thoughts on unit performance. Right now I am interested in using an agressive style of Chaos Dwarf list without warmachines. (For the challenge) I understand that without Magma Cannons and Hellcannons my list isn’t optimal, but I am looking for a competitive list, as I am a competitive gamer.

Feel free to add comments and 4chan speak, because I aint even mad bro.

2,500 point agressive Legion of Azgorh list

LORD (620pts)

Sorcerer-Prophet (riding Lammasu) 620pts

- Level 4 (Hashut Lore)

- Darkforge Weapon

- Charmed Shield

- Ironcurse Icon

- Talisman of Endurance

- Chalice of Blood and Darkness

Lammasu

- Level 2 (Shadow Lore)

HERO (544pts)

Dark Castellean 205pts

- Battle Standard Bearer

- Great Weapon

- Pistol

- The Mask of the Furnace

Bull Centaur Taur’ruk 235pts

- Great Weapon

- Blackshard Armour

- Dragonhelm

- Luckstone

- Crown of Command

Hobgoblin Khan 52pts

- Wolf

Hobgoblin Khan 52pts

- Wolf

CORE (631pts)

24 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard 479pts

- Full Command

- HW+S

- Blunderbuss’

- Banner of Swiftness

28 Hobgoblin Cutthroats 152pts

- Muso, Standard

- Bows

SPECIAL (380pts)

7 Bull Centaur Renders 380pts

- Full Command

- Great Weapons

- Gleaming Pennant

RARE (325pts)

K’daai Destroyer 325pts

TOTAL = 2,500pts

Bloodbeard:

I ran a “no warmachines, total close combat” list for many 2000 point games. Because I hadn’'t build any yet.

I used fireborn instead of centaurs. And no big monster but more i infantry. Besides a bad battlw against bretonia they crushed everything.

You might get some knowledge or ideas through my battle reports (see link in signature).

You planning on sticking the lammasu in a unit? Wondering about the Iron Curse Icon when you have the talisman of endurance. Does it save the lammasu? Otherwise stick it on the bsb.

Without a ward save on the taur’uk I think he’ll be cannon snipped - not having s look out sir.

saurus:

GAME 1 against (Matt’s) Warriors of Chaos- Nurgle themed (love it!)

2,500 Opponent WoC list (roughly)

LORD

Sorcerer Lord (General)
- Mark of Nurgle
- Level 4 (Death Lore)
- Talisman of Endurance
- Scaled Skin
- Dispel Scroll?
- Likely other stuff

HERO
Festus the Leechlord
- Mark of Nurgle
- Level 2 (Lore of Nurgle)

Exalted Hero (riding Daemonic Mount)
- Mark of Nurgle
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Halberd
- Talisman of Preservation
- Scaled Skin

CORE
18 Chaos Warriors
- Mark of Nurgle
- Full Command
- Additional Hand Weapons
- Banner of Leadership

18 Chaos Wariors
- Mark of Nurgle
- Full Command
- Halberds
- Shields
- Banner of Swiftness

SPECIAL
Gorebeast Chariot
- Mark of Nurgle

Gorebeast Chariot
- Mark of Nurgle

Chimera
- Flaming Breath
- Regeneration
- Poison Attacks

Chimera
- Flaming Breath
- Regeneration
- Poison Attacks

----------------------------------------------

Mission: Blood and Glory

Result: Chaos Dwarf Victory on Turn 6

Unit analysis for the game:
Sorcecer-Prophet on Lammasu (Survived)
Positives:
- Matt didn’t run a Hellcannon. (Which he often does)
- Maneuverability was awesome. Regardless of the Sorcerer-Prophets decent close combat stats I do not want this guy in combat and the flight of the Lammasu saw that it never happened. Also, the Lore of Hashut has a couple of short range spells and flight made him very flexible in this regard.
- Magic resistance 3 plus the 5+ ward save meant Matt never bothered to cast Lore of Death spells snipe spells at this guy.
- Chalice of Blood and Darkness is way undercosted. I didn’t use the dodgy ‘use after casting a spell but before your opponent dispels’ ability, but even without the rules abuse ability, this item is phenominal. Should probably be costed at around 75 points.

Negatives:
- Never rolled higher than an 8 for Winds of Magic and most results were around 5 dice (with two magic phases of double 1 :mad) High points costs with the possibility of getting regular rubbish magic phases hurts alot.
- High points cost means no access to second Arcane Item slot from getting a Daemonsmith.
- Watch out for Purple Sun!!!
Usefulness: 4/10

Dark Castellean (Survived)
Positives:
- Stubborn + BSB = totally awesome.
- Hard to kill but also packs a punch.

Negatives:
- High points cost for BSB. Worried about losing this guy, especially in a Blood and Glory match. Even refused a challenge against Matt’s Exalted hero. (and hence forgoed the break test re-roll)
Usefulness: 8/10

Hobgaoblin Khans (Both killed by WoC Turn 3)
Positives: These guys are so useful. Really annoyed the hell out of Matt by getting the way of his forces, fleeing from charges and redirecting.

Negatives: None in this game.
Usefulness: 9/10

Bull Centaur Taur’ruk (Killed on Turn 5 by Exalted Hero)
Positives: This guys is necessary with any large Bull Centaur unit. He adds 4 additionals WS5 Str 7 attacks to a unit where each guy only has 2 WS4 Str 6 attacks each. The Crown of Command is a must on this guy and without it I think I would have lost the entire unit

Negatives: Failed every armour save he took in the game despite having multiple 2 and 3+ save attempts. Just poor luck rather than anything else.
Usefulness: 6.5/10

Hobgoblin Cuttthroats (destroyed in Turn 2 by Chimera)
Positives: Cheap core choice unit and an expensive points cost army.

Negatives: Achieved little in terms of game strategy
Usefulness: 2/10

Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard (Survived, but lost around 60 per cent of the unit)
Positives:
- Resiliant! Took an absolute beating from the Chaos Warrior Halberd unit that combined charged with the Exalted Hero. Combined with the BSB, they held their ground impressively. Also their armour save is awesome for a standard core choice.
- Blunderbusses. They are expensive but ‘oh boy’, can they dish out some damage. Getting 50+ hits on a unit that result in 14-15 wounds really hurts Chaos Warriors. They took a charge from the Additional HW unit on Turn 3, killed 8 and made them panic, resulting in them fleeing rather than charging. Also killed a around 10 warriors from the Halberd unit. I was impressed with the result of the blunderbusses.
- Matt and I voted them as ‘best performing unit on the table’.

Negatives:
- Expensive in points.
- Not sure whether I should keep the movement banner on them of give them the flaming standard to deal with regen. I just worry about those 2+ flaming ward hero’s locking the unit up.
Usefulness: 9/10

Bull Centaur Renders (Survived with 3 Renders alive at battles conclusion)
Positives: With a Taur’ruk, these guys hit like a freight train. Str 6 is awesome and they are very tough. Toughness 5 and a 3+ save is very solid. They demolished in a single round of combat 11 Nurgle Warriors plus Festus. 2 Warriors survived the onslaught and broke, eventually fleeing off the table. Would have wiped the whole unit in that first round of combat if it wasn’t for their 5+ regen save given to them by Festus.
- Killed both Chimeras and 2/3 of a Nurgle Warriors unit contained Festus.

Negatives:
- Large footprint. Yeah, 8 Bull Centaurs is really large on the table and makes them susceptible to warmachines and templates. However, I feel any less than 6 makes them too weak as a combat unit due to…
- ONLY 2 ATTACKS EACH! Yeah, you really feel it, especially against Nurgle where you are a -1 to hit. Taur’ruk is vital to this unit.
- Almost lost the unit on Turn 2 when Matt successfully cast Doom and Darkness on the unit (Despite my best efforts to dispel). Then the charging Chimera got unbelievable rolls and did 7 wounds to the unit in a single round. Did 4 wounds back, but lost the combat and broke despite the re-roll on LD6. Luckily, he didn’t catch me, otherwise that might have been the game right there.
Usefulness: 8/10

K’daai Destroyer (Vanquised by a failed toughness test on Turn 5)
Positives:
- Took on two Gorebeast chariots and defeated both over about 7 rounds of combat (LOL). Also kept those Gorebeat chariots in check. Nurgle Gorebeast chariots for 140points each are really undercosted.
- Non-magical attacks re-rolling successful-to-wound rolls against the K’daai is brutal.

Mixed: Got his points back, but thats it.

Negatives:
- Failed two toughness tests resulting in the loss of 4 wounds. Realistically over the game I should fail about just under once per game, (0.8 times over five turns of toughness checks) so I was unlucky.
- Charged a Gorebeat chariot that couldn’t realistically flee from the charge. I did 3 wounds to teh Gorebeast chariot and it did no damage to the K’daai during that first round of combat, resulting in the K’daai Winning combat by 4. However, Matt passed his LD 4 check (with no BSB re-roll). If he would have failed I would have almost certainly overrun into his Chimera situated about 2 inches behind. Great rolling on Matt’s part.
- Got bogged down in the end, but as I said, those Gorebeast chariots are crazy tough for what you pay in points for them.
Usefulness: 6/10

----------------------------------------------------------------------

So in two days I play against Ogres and I will be using pretty much the same list, unless people have opinions on whether I should change things up.

Damien’s Ogre list I know contains the following:
- Firebelly
- Ironguts
- 1 unit of 3-4 Mournfang
- 1 Ironblaster
- Hellheart Magic Item :o

Either way, I will post another analysis for this game also.

saurus :hat off

saurus:

You might get some knowledge or ideas through my battle reports (see link in signature).

Bloodbeard
Awesome! I will make certain to check the out. :D
You planning on sticking the lammasu in a unit? Wondering about the Iron Curse Icon when you have the talisman of endurance. Does it save the lammasu? Otherwise stick it on the bsb.

Bloodbeard
Lammasu is a monster so it can't join any units. The Ironcurse Icon is simply there to help the Lammasu against receiving warmachine hits to its face. Yes, its only a 6+, but it's also dirt cheap. The game where that ward save prevents it taking a cannonball to the jaw means that it would have paid for itself over the next 40 games. :D
Without a ward save on the taur'uk I think he'll be cannon snipped - not having s look out sir.

Bloodbeard
I thought that with 7 Renders in a unit he would receive a 'look out sir' roll. I thought that only once the Render unit is less than 5 models that he wouldn't get one. Is this correct?

saurus

ThorAxe:

Prophet on a lamassu makes it about as expensive as a prophet with a spare daemon smith. If you really wanted the extra sorcerer, drop the lamassu, give the prophet a carpet for flying without having to worry about it being shot out from underneath him, give him a scroll, and give the smith the chalice. Then again, lore of shadow is great.

I find that hob goblins are a great tar pit unit. It’s a good thing they were eaten up by a chimera. Chaos dwarfs fare about as well against a chimera as the goblins, losing 3 armor and being wounded on 2s from its attacks. Could also be thrown at chariots so that they don’t smash into dwarfs.

Unsure of how good a large bull centaur unit really is. A small unit with shields and a musician can be thrown at things like a chariot, play the cav game against elves, or perform as chaff pretty well for a fairly low cost. A big unit like that seems to be like a not as good irongut unit. Taur’ruks are great though.

Would suggest running a small centaur unit, great weapons or shields is your preference, have the taur’ruk run off on his own and smash things like monsters, and try and run an iron daemon (not really a warmachine, though it could perform like an over costed organ gun). It brings a nice unbreakable element to the list, able to hold up things that would smash through the dwarfs. Bull centaur are important support for this guy, as cav or smaller monstrous units (breast of nurgle) are its bane

saurus:

So I had my second 2,500pt game with my combat orientated Chaos Dwarfs against Ogres yesterday. I took Thoraxes advice and implemented a cuple of changes for this game.

Here’s the list I took:

2,500 point agressive Legion of Azgorh list, version 2.0

LORD (620pts)

Sorcerer-Prophet (riding Lammasu) (General) 620pts
- Level 4 (Hashut Lore)
- Darkforge Weapon
- Charmed Shield
- Ironcurse Icon
- Talisman of Endurance
- Chalice of Blood and Darkness

Lammasu
- Level 2 (Shadow Lore)

HERO (299pts)
Dark Castellean 195pts
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Great Weapon
- Pistol
- Dargonhelm
- Talisman of Preservation

Hobgoblin Khan 52pts
- Wolf

Hobgoblin Khan 52pts
- Wolf

CORE (626pts)
24 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard 474pts
- Full Command
- HW+S
- Blunderbuss’
- Banner of Eternal Flame

28 Hobgoblin Cutthroats 152pts
- Muso, Standard
- Bows

SPECIAL (630pts)
3 Bull Centaur Renders 160pts
- Standard
- Great Weapons

3 Bull Centaur Renders 160pts
- Standard
- Great Weapons

Iron Daemon 310pts
- Hellbound

RARE (325pts)
K’daai Destroyer 325pts

TOTAL = 2,500pts
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Game 2 vs Damiens Ogre Kingdoms

2,500pt Ogre Kingdom list (approximate)

LORD

Slaughtermaster (General)
- Level 4 (Law of Great Maw)
- Gnoblar Thiefstone

HERO
Bruiser
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Great Weapon
- Talisman of Preservation

Firebelly
- Level 2 (Lore of Fire)
- Hellheart

CORE
8 Ogres
- Full COmmand

5 Ironguts
- Full Command
- Standard of Discipline

5 Ironguts
- Full Command

SPECIAL
1 Sabretusk

1 Sabretusk

1 Sabretusk

4 Leadbelchers
- Musician

6 Maneaters
- Full Command
- Braces of Ogre Pistols
(Stubborn, Longstrider)

3 Mournfang
- Full Command
- 2+ Armour saves
- Dragonhide Banner

RARE
Ironblaster
--------------------------------------------------------

Mission: Watchtower

Result: Chaos Dwarf defeat at the end of Turn 4

Unit analysis for the game:

Sorcecer-Prophet on Lammasu (Both killed by Ironblaster Cannon on Turn 4)
Positives:
- Maneuverability was awesome. Kept me away from the Hellheart on the Ogre Firebelly.

Negatives:
- Horrible, horrible Winds of Magic rolls (again! :() Second consecutive game where the Winds of Magic on my Turn 1 came out as snake eyes! In 4 turns never rolled higher than a 7 for power dice. Got 1 spell off all game (Ashstorm), but that was due to an irresistable force roll.
- All my spells were dispelled by Damien (except Ashstorm) and I only managed to dispel 1 of his spells all game. Can’t really blame the Sorcerer-Prophet here, just horrific rolling on my part.
- Having a wizard mounted on a wizard seems very risky, as when one of them miscasts, both wizards generally cop the hits. Also doesnt help that the model costs 620pts, which is very expensive.
- Couldn’t hide from the Ironblaster without taking the wizard effectively out of his casting range. Couldn’t kill the Ironblaster due a having no long range shooting and my Winds of Magic rolls failing utterly.
- Finding this guy a bit too expensive for what he does, but 2 consecutive games of poor magic dice I think is distorting the overall picture here.
Usefulness: 1/10

Dark Castellean (Fled cc and caught by Ogre bulls in Turn 4)
Positives:
- Did a 4-5 wounds to some Ogres.

Negatives:
- Failed 4 consecutive LD 10 rolls!!! Firstly failed 2 fear tests dropping to WS 1 in an important combat! Losing that combat, then failed 2 consecutive LD10 Stubborn break tests.
Usefulness: 3/10

Hobgoblin Khans (One killed Turn 1 by Sabretusk, other survived the game)
Positives: Got in the way of Damien’s Ogre units. One of the Khans prevented the unit of Ogre Ledbelchers from entering a building on Turn 1. This resulted in the Ledbelchers being charged and eventually wiped out by the K’daai Destroyer.
- Annoying and dirt cheap. Great combo!

Negatives: One was killed in a single round of cc by a Sabretusk, despite the Khan being worth 3x as much in points. Those Sabretusks are too cheap for what they do and should not be available in units of 1. 21pts for a fear causing, 2 wound, 3 attack, str 4 redirector is a no brainer.
Usefulness: 8/10

Hobgoblin Cuttthroats (Survived, but were fleeing when game ended)
Positives: Again,c heap core choice unit and an expensive points cost army.

Negatives: Achieved little in terms of game strategy. Failed to kill a 21pt Sabretusk in a round of shooting.
- Got smashed by the Firebelly breath weapon, but that was due to poor positioning by me.
Usefulness: 2/10

Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard (Wiped out by 2 Ogre units in combined combat in Turn 4)
Positives:
- Blunderbusses. These Flame banner and the shooting is pretty awesome on these guys. If you’re careful with your movement, then the blunderbusses can really come into their own. The blunderbusses killed 3 Ironguts and 4 Ogre bulls in a full game turn. I think the  blunderbusse upgrade for a core choice unit is pretty solid.

Negatives:
- Again, Expensive in points.
- Failing 4 consecutive LD10 tests doomed these guys. Going from WS4 to WS1 against Ironguts and Bulls decimated the unit. Also failing to get any magic off to help these guys also contributed significantly to their downfall.
Usefulness: 5.5/10

2 units of 3 Bull Centaur Renders (First unit destoyed by Mournfang on Turn 4. Second Unit destoyed by Ogre BSB on Turn 4)
Positives: None really. These guys did nothing all game.

Negatives:
- The first unit tried to save the Sorcerer-Prophet on a Lammasu through blocking an Ironblaster cannonball, but the cannonball went straight through a single Bull Centaur and then killed both the Prophet and the Lammasu. (amazing shot). The next turn the remaining two got a rear charge off against 2 remaining Mournfang cavalry…and got smashed. Wasnt even close. For an additional 15pts per model the Mournfang get an additional 5 attacks, 3 of which are at str 5. it was a beatdown, even with the +3 combat res for a rear charge.
- The second unit got into a great position in Turn 3 to flank the unit of Ogres that had charged the Infernal Guard. Needing a 5 or more on the dice to get into combat I rolled a 1, 2 and 2… After that failure, I knew then I had lost the game and the 4 failed LD10 rolls that followed was just further salt in the wound. So on the final turn they managed to charge into the Ogre BSB who was buffed by the +1 toughness spell. Unfortunately, the Bull Centaurs failed to kill or break the BSB, who subsequently wiped them out in the following round of combat. (The last turn before the game ended).
- The moral of the story is that 2 attacks each is just not enough for the cost of these guys. I will give small units of Bull Centaurs another try but I really think these guys need a Taur’ruk to help increase the number of attacks.
Usefulness: 2/10

Iron Daemon (Survived)
Positives:
- Steam Cannonade put some wounds on the Ironblaster and the Mournfang. Would have done more damage but I think my opponent was innocently doing the wound allocation wrong. Turns out I was correct, but it was unintentional and would not have changed the result of the game.
- I think the cannon is pretty good but you have to be mindful of charge distances. (as Thoraxe said in this thread)
- Looks tough to kill on paper, but Damien didn’t focus much energy on trying to kill it, and correctly in my opinion, focussed the Ironblaster on the Sorcerer-Prophet on the Lammasu instead.
- Did better than most other units in my army, but then again, that’s not saying much. lol.

Negatives:
- Didn’t make anywhere near its points back or have any real meaningful impact on the game. But at least it didn’t die either.
- Got locked into combat with the Ironblaster. Whilst this meant the Ironblaster wasn’t firing its cannon, it also meant the Iron Daemon couldn’t fire its gun either, and the Iron Daemon is worth almost twice as much in points as an Ironblaster.
- Not completely sold on its effectiveness, but will give the Iron Daemon a couple of more tries before reaching a final verdict.
Usefulness: 5/10

K’daai Destroyer (Survived)
Positives:
- M9 is awesome. Using the K’daai Destroyer in conjunction with the Khans works wonders.
- Ripped apart in 2 combat rounds the Ledbelchers. Then managed to get into the flank of a unit of Ironguts which contained the slaughtermaster. Killed 3 Ironguts and wounded another in 2 combat rounds. Game ended before the combat reached a decisive conclusion.
- Didn’t fail a toughness test, but the game ended at the conclusion of Turn 4.
- I will just repeat what I said before: Non-magical attacks re-rolling successful-to-wound rolls against the K’daai is brutal.

Negatives:
- Having to pursue a single enemy model fleeing from combat (In this care a Ledbelcher) due to Frenzy is annoying.  Then again, its frenzy grants +D3 attacks in close combat, which is totally awesome.
Usefulness: 7.5/10
-----------------------------------------------------------
Big up to Damien for being a great opponent and a well deserved win on his part. My dice rolls might have been abysmal, but it takes a good general on the opposing side to take control of the game. Warhammer is a dice game, and yes, we can complain about our poor luck sometimes, but it you want a game completely based on strategy then go and play chess.

If you have anything to comment on, please do, as I always appreciate helpful advice.

Thanks for reading!