I’m prepping for a big tourney soon and was hoping for some feedback on this list. I’m pretty locked into this one or something close, but am open to any big issues people see. The thought is point denial and enough firepower to counter some of the big nasties out there (nurgle dp, etc.)
IMO I’d take 2 death shriekers and maybe a 10-12 unit of IG with hw/s or gw’s instead of the two iron demons . Or if you have to use an iron demon maybe take out a few of the blunderbusses (maybe like a 26 unit or somethin) 1 deathshrieker and a small unit of IG with cc weapons…
You are bringing some big nasty heat to that game.
Magma cannon, destroyer, ash storm and chalice. Phew. A lot of your enimes are gonna hate you.
Please let us know how those iron demons work for you. Like the concept of at miningtrain being rammed into enemies. But don’t know if it’s worth the points.
I feel like the IDs add some versatility and consistent shooting. They fill a couple of key roles (namely, monster killing, sealing off combats, solid countercharges and overall reliability)
The iron daemons are very expensive for what they do. In my opinion there are better options in the book to take over them. For instance if you really wanted to make this a “hard” list I’d drop the daemons in favour of some flanking bull centaurs and 2 death rockets.
But if you are dead set on using them here is how I would help your list.
Spend the extra 25pts and make the second one hellbound as well.
I’d actually drop the carpet on the prophet as well. Anchor him in the blunderbusses with the bsb. I realize you will lose his range, but the protection the blunderbusses offer is more important then getting the odd spell off (ash storm is 24" range anyways).
Your bsb needs the mask of furnace and a shield for the 2+ save followed by the 4+ward save.
You already have enough flaming attacks. I’d drop the banner of internal flame and pick up the lichebone pennant. This way if your prophet/bsb are in the unit they will have a 3+ ward vs death snipes (assuming they both have a 4+ ward item).
You will struggle with Ogres as they will deny your ID’s Thunderstomp, are generally T4 and will shrug off a lot of your Blunderbuss shots, and their Mournfang are 2+ Armor and will flank your big block and deny you your rank bonus to Combat Res.
You’ll likely do fine against horde armies like Skaven, VC, O&G, and TK will be a nice breaktime for you.
I think that HIgh Elves and Dark Elves will really challenge you as even with the Chalice they will likely have superior magic phases due to their access to all the BRB lores. Warriors of Chaos will depend on the build, but any high AS builds will give you a hard time. Daemons will likely be easier to deal with for you. Empire and Dwarfs would be an interesting matchup that you’d likely win. A gunline v gunline match would probably go to you since you have the K’daai, but there’s nothing sure fire about that.
As for Wood Elves, Beastmen, and Brets, you’re unlikely to run into them and unlikely to lose if you do as their books are pretty bent right now.
In all seriousness, I don’t think your list is that competitive. It has a bunch of the “hard” units from the book, but a single pit of shades or purple sun will wipe your one block out and the likelihood of seeing death and/or shadow magic each game is quite high since their so popular. That’s 750 points right there, and if you drop the carpet and put the SP on foot (which i’d agree with doing) then you’re looking at half your points in one block.
If you really want to run points denial, you’re better off just loading up on HW/S without the BB. Hording 38 GW IG would be pretty nasty. 28 x WS 4/S6 attacks? That will really bust up an opponent, especially if you put Hatred on them. Also the Lichebone Pennant or Movement Banner would both be better options than the flaming banner. If you go GW, then the extra 1 inch of charge range could really wreck an opponent who is expecting a M3 block.
One last thought, I’d either put hellbound on that last ID or drop it for another M Cannon and make both M. Cannons hellbound. The shooting from the M. Cannons will really help you thin out chaff/advancing blocks on units and can deal with most Ogre units more effectively thanks to the Multiple Wounds D3.
+1 with ToM for the Bsb (need at least 2+ AS), flamming banner (not necessary) and hellbound.
Will have problem against skaven double prophet and double runners. Against Empire 3 canons. Dwarfs with 4 warmachines.
Will be probably hard against HE and DE with minor losses. HE full cav could be a pain, really easy for them to pin the ID. Since your bsb is the key of your BB, just kill him and run them.
DE with very mobile list, same as HE.
Chaos 6+chariots, DP and skulls : 50/50.
Other armies, it’s really cool.
You will struggle with Ogres
2 ID, Hashut, Magma, Destroyer… It should be pretty hard for the poor OK… CDs playing well and it’s 4 hits S6 1D3 wounds with ID, 1 magma shot, 1 destroyer really hard to catch, and the azgorh flammes…:mad
2 ID, Hashut, Magma, Destroyer... It should be pretty hard for the poor OK... CDs playing well and it's 4 hits S6 1D3 wounds with ID, 1 magma shot, 1 destroyer really hard to catch, and the azgorh flammes...:mad
Completely disagree. Couple of sabertusks will keep the destroyer out of the game long enough to matter. They don't have to catch it, it just has to frenzy on them. The two IDs will get some nice shots, sure, but once CC starts it's going to just stick there without being able to TStomp. I agree that the Magma Cannon will pack a punch with S5 and Multiple Wounds, but that's not enough. Flames of Azgorh will certainly help but there's no guarantee you get it or Ashstorm. Even if you do get them both that's not enough to make up for the lack punch elsewhere.
Best case your 31 Blunderbusses are stupid wide and all shoot x3 so that's 93 shots. BS3 means you need 4's to hit so that halves them. 47 hits at S3 vs T4 equals out to 5's to wound so that comes to 16 wounds before re-roll. After re-roll you're at 26ish wounds. Divide by 3 and you're at 8 dead ogres. Awesome! But you likely won't get a second shot because at M6 Ogres can get charge you from outside 12" needing only an average roll to succeed. That also assumes that you're shooting Bulls, not Ironguts who would get a save (albeit a slim one), or Mournfangs would get a 3+ AS.
So yes, best case scenario Blunderbusses may have enough punch. Worst case though, that 26 wounds becomes 9 wounds before saves. And that's only if you're firing at 16 wide! 16 wide then leaves you WIDE open for second and third charges. Good luck. I don't buy it.
Of course all of this assumes that the Ogres don't have Troll Guts or other buffs. T5 Ogres now mean best case you get 15 wounds from your 16 wide Blunderbuss unit. I think that smart Ogre players would just line up double charges while chaffing away your destroyer. So you kill a nice chunk of one unit, that's great.
I just don't think that your M. Cannon and two IDs will kill of enough before Ogres can close the door and start wearing you down in CC.
But you likely won't get a second shot because at M6 Ogres can get charge you from outside 12" needing only an average roll to succeed
That's why he should go with +1M banner. Ogres should get two shots before charging. And maybe you forget that IG have S4...
If the destroyer is distract all game, maybe the CD don't know how to play him:) For example, you can play it "back sided", and just redirect and block the ogre unit while shooting with the others things... I know it's uncommun but it works well. And it's a good way to put in place well the ID for a counter charge...
Have played many times against OK in ETC format : ID 18 inches well played, it's at least two shots with it. With 2 ID, it's 4 shots before OK charge it. For BB, they can shot at 16 inches with the +1M banner. Even againts M6 units, you can shot two times (1 + "stand and shoot") before being engaged... And in CC, it's 3+ 6++. Not so bad... And steadfast+stubborn...
Mournfangs (2*5) are the most annoying, but every ID shots can be jucy...
CDs have lots of thing to deal against OK:) Maybe most of the things to deal against:)
Thanks for the help so far guys, it’s been very insightful. I got a game in tonight against WoC and the list did well. The IDs killed 1000 pts worth of critters, multiple chariots, DP, warrior block and a chimera. To be honest I think WoC is a weak matchup for this list, regardless I did walk away with some learning points.
1.Hashut is a must in this list, IMO. Ash store is too important for shutting down spells like purple sun and pit.
2. I need some long range threats to kills cannons, and the big template seems ok against trash units? so I’m going to add 1 if not 2 rockets.
3. And Zhantan is right, destroyer is crucial for Crowd control and deterrence, great idea btw.
I’ve made a couple of changes, before critiquing please keep this in mind. I know it’s not optimal, but the carpet is too good IMO, maybe it’s one of “those” items to me. I’d rather not have half my army’s points in 1 unit…
I am concerned about no chalice or dispel scroll. Ash Storm is key, maybe so key I need the chalice?
I feel like between the spell ranges and the carpet the prophet can baby sit the rockets as needed. Whatcha guys think?
Thanks again for all the help!!
Prophet: lvl4 hashut, preservation, carpet, charmed shield Castellan: BSB, mask of the furnace, shield Khan: wolf