Groznit Goregut:
Hi All,
I’m toying with different list ideas. I haven’t gotten to play yet with any list, but I am trying to see if I can build some stuff really fast for a GT in October. I’ll show the list first:
Lvl 4 on Hashut w/ Bood o’ Hash, Talisman of 4+, Earthing Rod
BSB w/ Mask of the Furnace & Shield
Lvl 1 on Fire w/ dispel scroll
24 Infernal Guard w/ full command & Banner of Slavery
45 Hobgoblins w/ muso, banner, and bows
40 Hobgoblins w/ muso, banner, shields, and bows
3 Bull Centaurs w/ shields, spears, musician, and banner of Discipline
Death Seeker Rocket
Magma Cannon
Hell Cannon
K’Daai Destroyer
Destroyer on one flank with Hellcannon on the other. Hobgoblins and war machines fire on the enemy. Banner of Slavery gives them ItP. Hatred spell from Prophet might make them nasty. Death Seeker tries to take out enemy war machines & Monsters.
I really want to have some Bull Centaurs, but can’t think of what to get rid of. I’d also love a Khan on wolf to run around. I’ve had great success with my OnG version. I don’t know where to drop the points. I am sure that some people would say MORE CHAOS DWARFS. I actually don’t own many more. Honestly, though, I would add in more Hobgoblins, if I could. Some people would say CUT OUT THOSE HOBGOBS! WHAT GOOD ARE THEY?!?!? Well, if they are Steadfast, they have a BSB and LD 10 nearby. That’s pretty darn cool! I just wish I had more stuff to him them in the flanks. I am trying to weaken them before they get to me to maybe grind them out.
Thoughts? Opinions? Considerations?
EDIT: Forgot the Bull Centaurs! I do have something on the flanks instead of the K’Daai, which is good.
NoisyAssassin:
Technically aren’t Bull Centaurs Monstrous Infantry, not Monstrous Cav? That means the spears won’t give you +1 S on the charge.
And I’ve only played 1 game with CD so far, so take my advice with a (large) grain of salt:
If you want the BC killy (which it sounds like you do) great weapons are probably the way to go for them. T5, 3 wounds, and 3+ save should be fine for a flank-grinder role. The 2+ save for shields is great if you want them to be the tarpits, but you have plenty of Hobs for that.
Is ItP on the Hobs really worth the points for a banner? Shave that and a few hobs from each unit and you should be able to fit in a cheap Khan (which I found to be even more useful for CD than it is for my goblins). Also, I’m already of the opinion that Charmed Shield and/or Enchanted Shield are pretty much auto-includes. Our wizards come with Blackshard Armor, which means they can take magic armor too! Enchanted drops their save to 2+, and Charmed can protect your machine babysitter from cannons, or either wizard from hits from miscasts. At only 5 points each why not take them?
Groznit Goregut:
The Banner of Slavery is a lot cheaper than putting 2 Khan’s in with the infantry units. Also, there are times when I can see it making a difference. For one, no failed Fear/Terror tests. Also, ItP makes some units immune to some hexes. There is always the chance to brick a Ld test, even on re-rollable Ld10. It might make my opponent less willing to cast huge spells to blast half my unit away if he’s trying to go for a panic test. Sure, it’s not the greatest, but it’s not the worst. Is there another magic banner that really stands out as amazing in comparison? I don’t think the other options are that great. I would say comparable to the Slavery.
Enchanted Shield and Charmed shield are good ideas. I’ll use that.
I was thinking Great Weapons before, but several people said they loved hw/shield. I agree that I’ll need a heavy hitter more than something to stop them. I also don’t have to convert them at all…
NoisyAssassin:
I suppose that ignoring Panic from nuke spells isn’t too bad, but then again, if they’re targeting the hobs with nasty spells that’s probably a good thing for you!
As for the BC kit, I’ve played against HW&S, and used them in my one game. I rather like them, but they have a different role than what it sounds like you want. They really don’t kill anything kitted that way!
Groznit Goregut:
I like the idea of Great Weapons on the Bull Centaurs. I won’t have to convert and I like the idea of them cleaving into things. I wonder about the Banner of Discipline. Should I go for another banner? If so, what? I won’t need Razor Standard on them. The Strider standard? Allows them to ignore any terrain? That could surprise some people. Anything else?
The list just seems so small for all the points!
RichardC1967:
I like the idea of Great Weapons on the Bull Centaurs. I won't have to convert and I like the idea of them cleaving into things. I wonder about the Banner of Discipline. Should I go for another banner? If so, what? I won't need Razor Standard on them. The Strider standard? Allows them to ignore any terrain? That could surprise some people. Anything else?
The list just seems so small for all the points!
Groznit Goregut
Banner of Dicipline and Crown of Command for the Tau'ruk..they won't go anywhere.
RichardC1967:
Technically aren't Bull Centaurs Monstrous Infantry, not Monstrous Cav? That means the spears won't give you +1 S on the charge.
NoisyAssassin
BC's are classified as Monsterous Beasts, so I'm not sure how the spear bonus effects them now...anyone have an idea?
flashgordon:
they get the extra rank of fighting like infantry
flashgordon:
as for the list, i assume your lord and bsb are going in the infernal guard, so theres no need for the banner of slavery, they are ld10 with a rr as you want to keep them close enough to be immune to animosity. hobgobs are only useful with bows in units of 20, 40-45 is too big to be dealing with, split the 45 into 2 units of 20 and drop the bows from the unit of 40with shields so they can be a nice (usually stubborn ld w/rr) cc unit that can sit and hold up a unit next to your IG. centaurs are only really worth taking if you have a tarruk with them, but if you really REALLY must take them then great weapons are the way to go, they arent infantry so dont get a parry, but arent cavalry so they dont get the +1str from spears, give them great weapons so they hit hard, shields if you have the points spare so they die less from shooting
Groznit Goregut:
Why do you say that Hobgoblins are only good in units of 20-25 with a bow? If I put them in horde formation, they are getting 30 shots at something. If I go with the “bus” (deep for Steadfast), then they get 25 shots still. How is that a bad thing?
Also, the Hordes of Hobgoblins are a bit of a dual purpose. They are there to be an affordable battle line and to form my defense. They are really meant to be cheap troops to accept charges and protect my flanks. Throw in enough of them and they won’t disappear when a nasty unit charges them. I put the bows on them to give them something to do while the enemy advances. That number of shots doesn’t cost too much and it can help whittle away at big units. It might also destroy some chaff each turn. 25-30 shots can even kill a Chaos Warrior or two. Throw enough shots at something and make the opponent roll dice is not a bad thing.
I really wish I could give them two hand weapons AND bows! They would be better that way.
rpitts2004:
Dunno if this will work for you, but i’ve had a lot of success with this list. Even had an ogre player concede after his gutstar was fighting infernal guard from the front and fireborn on the flank while the destroyer ate some mournfangs
Chaos Dwarf Demonsmith
Level 2 Lore of Hashut
Talisman of protection
Chaos Dwarf Demonsmith
Level 1 Lore of Hashut
Chalice of blood and darkness
Castellan BSB
Shield
Mask of the Furnace
Hobgoblin Khan
Light armor
shield
sword of battle
Infernal Guard x 38
Standard
Champion
Infernal Guard x10
Fire Glaives
Hobgoblin Cutthroats x39
Extra hand weapon
K�?Tdaai Fireborn x 6
Manburner
Magma Cannon
Hellbound
Magma Cannon
Death Shrieker Rocker
K�?Tdaai Destroyer