TheLazySamurai:
Hello,
So the next major tournament I plan to attend is in August, but I am planning on making some big changes to my normal list. This will require some playtesting, so I am trying to start early since I don’t get to play much. I added a couple of pieces that concentrate on points denial, namely a hellcannon (pics in the image gallery :D) and a big unit of blunderbuss in place of both a block of HW&S IG and a small unit of IG with fireglaives. The small unit always did well, but my center consistently gave way and I lose points on war machines and the small unit of IG. The new list focuses on keeping the war machines behind the blunderbuss so they will be safer and the Hellcannon will anchor one flank while the Iron Daemon holds the other. Also, I am open to switching lore of Hashut for lore of death with this list. I know this list isn’t super friendly, but I will be facing some serious trash at Bayou. Let me know what you think. :hat off
The Lazy Samurai
2500 Chaos Dwarfs
Characters
Lords- 400
Sorcerer-Prophet
Level 4 Wizard (Hashut)
Talisman of Protection
Enchanted Shield
Arabyan Carpet
Heroes- 381
Infernal Castellan
Battle Standard Bearer
Shield
Dragonhelm
Dawnstone
Iron Curse Icon
Daemonsmith Sorcerer
Level 1 Wizard (Metal)
Chalice of Blood and Darkness
Hobgoblin Khan
Giant Wolf
Light Armor
Shrieking Blade
Core- 628
32 Infernal Guard
Blunderbuss
Full Command
Naptha Bombs
Banner of Swiftness
Special- 555
Deathshrieker Rocket
Magma Cannon
Iron Daemon War Engine
Hellbound
Rare- 535
K’Daai Destroyer
Hell Cannon
Total- 2499
Geist:
Hey I too will be going to bayou battltes and hope to see you there.
As for your list.
Two khans on wolves and nothing else. Anything else is point loss.
No scroll? I would rethink that, no button is a must to me.
Get a second magma cannon. Toss the rocket, you have a hell cannon it does same job but better.
I would think about tossing kadai. As everyone in this region knows about him and had a answer for him.
sam585:
I would try to get another khan in that list
TheLazySamurai:
Hey I too will be going to bayou battltes and hope to see you there.
As for your list.
Two khans on wolves and nothing else. Anything else is point loss.
No scroll? I would rethink that, no button is a must to me.
Get a second magma cannon. Toss the rocket, you have a hell cannon it does same job but better.
I would think about tossing kadai. As everyone in this region knows about him and had a answer for him.
Geist
Thanks for the feedback. You'll have to introduce yourself when we are at Bayou Battles. One issue I have with this list is that everything is such a huge block of points that it is hard to free up points to make adjustments.
You brought up several valid points. I love having a dispel scroll to negate a magic phase or at least one nasty spell, but the chalice has been amazing in my experience and I dont play it by interrupting my opponents dispel attempt after I rolled all my power dice. Offensively it can be used at the beginning of a low winds magic phase. If I roll low and expect to only cast one spell, I am able to pull enough dice away from my opponent to leave him basically defenseless. On the defense side, I am stealing 1-3 per turn from my opponent after I roll all my dispel dice. This causes all kinds of headaches and makes players rethink their magic phase, as long as the chalice holder is alive. For 25 points more, the chalice seems like the more influential item.
In regards to the Destroyer, you are correct. Most of the veteran players know what they are looking at and don't lose due to underestimating it. I prefer my opponent to know what the destroyer can do because he won't feel cheated by what they perceive to be an OP unit. Even if your opponent recognizes the destroyer and has a plan to deal with it, that plan will still take attention and resources to enact. The destroyer is absolutely worth it's points and I really like my model for it. I have replacement units for comped tourneys.
If you can think of some ways to free up some points to make the changes you mentioned without pulling the destroyer, I am open to ideas. I think I will switch to lore of death on the prophet since (for the moment) I have two war machines that cause panic checks and doom and darkness has obvious synergy there. Thanks for the reply.
The Lazy Samurai
Geist:
Toss the death rocket. That gives you 100pts, to get another khan and spend however you wish the change. Two magma are better in my two bits than one. The rocket is great when the dot hits but it’s not easy and often its 200pts invested for a single dot, where as the hell cannon can go beat face when it’s not lobbing rounds.
The iron demon is good but he jams up to fast cav so easy. Honestly I would take a second unit of blunderbusses than him or lacking points a big brick of fire glavies. They can be choppy with metal magic and shoot off things likes fast cav.
Things to think about.
Bloodbeard:
Toss the death rocket. That gives you 100pts, to get another khan and spend however you wish the change. Two magma are better in my two bits than one. The rocket is great when the dot hits but it's not easy and often its 200pts invested for a single dot, where as the hell cannon can go beat face when it's not lobbing rounds.
The iron demon is good but he jams up to fast cav so easy. Honestly I would take a second unit of blunderbusses than him or lacking points a big brick of fire glavies. They can be choppy with metal magic and shoot off things likes fast cav.
Things to think about.
Geist
I disagree with you on almost all of this (I do love my Hellcannon). Ever since I took a deathrocket to battle, it's the magma cannon I've been saving points on. The 5'' template will devastate t3 units and low LD units. My demolition rocket has taken out chariots, dragons, lords and mortis engines. A lot of versatility for 100 points and super deadly with a daemonsmith next to it.
If not rolling a misfire, you can use your daemonsmith on the scatter die getting a 1/3 chance of a hit.
The Magma Cannon is cool, because you can't miss with it, placing the template 9'' away before rolling artillery dice. But I find the 45pts extra a lot, when it's unable to kill the tough stuff.
I try to never leave home without my Iron Demon. Moving 6'' like a chariot, free pivoting and turning is real deadly combined with its steamcannonade. That thing has the strength, armor piercing and multible wounds to do some serious damage. Mine have taken out demonprinces, dragons, phoenixes, juggernaughts and countless knights.
When ramming it into a unit it won't move. A hellbound ID is hard to kill like an obsidian ziggurat. It might not do much damage, but seing that thing stop the enemies hammer unit of chaos warriors, taking a knight charge full on, denying a monsters its killing ability.
The hellbound Iron Demon is the perfect points denial unit. If shooting doesn't earn itself back, then it's ability to stop something dangerous, lets you mob up points by killing everything else.
TheLazySamurai:
Hey Bloodbeard,
Thanks for the thoughts. I usually keep my flying lord by the warmachines in the first couple of turns to provide assistance with re-rolls. After the enemy is a little closer he flies out to use some of the shorter range spells of Hashut and now perhaps lore of death. I usually lose a warmachine at some point early in the game due to my opponents efforts, so midgame the lone daemon smith will likely only be babysitting two machines. I worry only having 2 war machines will not allow me to do enough damage to his units to make the combat phase manageable. Plus, all three of these machines allow quite a bit of versatility.
The reason I use the naphtha bombs in the blunderbuss is for the stand and shoot reaction. I normally run the unit 11 wide, so 22 models can shoot. This allows for the BSB to join and the champion to throw the bombs while still shooting with at least 20 blunderbuss for the bonus. The naphtha bombs are a joke, but +1 to hit on a stand and shoot with 20-60 shots is a serious benefit.
I need to do some play testing to make sure the hellcannon does what I need it to do in my list. I will definitely post some battle reports asap.
The Lazy Samurai
Bloodbeard:
The +1 to hit modifier for short range (or no -1 for long range) is great and that works for the 18" fireglaives. But for blunders it has no effect as you dont get the yo jit modifier when shooting with 10 blunders anyway.
Or am I missing something?
TheLazySamurai:
The +1 to hit modifier for short range (or no -1 for long range) is great and that works for the 18" fireglaives. But for blunders it has no effect as you dont get the yo jit modifier when shooting with 10 blunders anyway.
Or am I missing something?
Bloodbeard
No, you are right.:hat off The naphtha bombs are a leftover from the fireglaives I usually use. I can move a few points around now for some minor changes. Thanks for the rules reminder. The blunderbuss unit is new to me and I have only used it in a few games.
The Lazy Samurai
sam585:
I think the castle list I built might be more effective than yours for dealing with all comers trash lists. The kdaii destroyer loses alot of its potential when facing serious trash, it is even more compounded when you lack the khans and centaurs to support him. You will be better suited by taking maximum shooting.
TheLazySamurai:
I think the castle list I built might be more effective than yours for dealing with all comers trash lists. The kdaii destroyer loses alot of its potential when facing serious trash, it is even more compounded when you lack the khans and centaurs to support him. You will be better suited by taking maximum shooting.
sam585
I saw your list from Loidrial's thread. You provided an excellent overview of the army and how to use it effectively. I agree that your list is probably a stronger choice and would, given even dice, handle the list above effectively by winning the artillery vs artillery battle.
I know another khan would make the list more effective, but it is important to note how much the destroyer and the iron daemon change the movement phase. The list you posted has very few threats to forward enemy movement. The khans will redirect and chaff, but there are only 2 of them. You also have ash storm. After that, there isn't anything to keep your opponent from just going full tilt towards your center. The iron daemon and the destroyer have solid charge range and, when positioned on either flank, they can deter some units from reckless forward movement. This combined with the shooting threat from the iron daemon and blunderbuss will cause your opponent to spend more time setting up their charges and movement strategy. More time for my shooting and more opportunities for them to make an error.
I really like your list and I see a lot of armies struggle to get to your center after the devastating bombardment. I know Bloodbeard noted that you are a strong, tactical player and that is clear from your responses to other members, so I certainly appreciate the advice. There is much I am still trying to work out with my CD list. I have been playing this game 17 years, but I have only been playing my CD for a little over a year and a half. Thanks for the thoughts on the list earlier and the list comparison. Cheers :cheers
The Lazy Samurai
sam585:
It really just depends on what you expect to be fighting too. Your version of filth and my version of filth are likely different xD
TheLazySamurai:
It really just depends on what you expect to be fighting too. Your version of filth and my version of filth are likely different xD
sam585
So I made some minor changes to the list to add the razor standard to the infernal guard. I switched the chalice for a scroll and moved a few points around. Horde IG with the razor standard are definitely a little scarier. I'm going to give it a try soon and report back on success/ failure. List below.
The Lazy Samurai
2500 Chaos Dwarfs
Characters
Lords- 400
Sorcerer-Prophet
Level 4 Wizard (Death)
Talisman of Protection
Enchanted Shield
Arabyan Carpet
Heroes- 356
Infernal Castellan
Battle Standard Bearer
Shield
Dragonhelm
Dawnstone
Iron Curse Icon
Daemonsmith Sorcerer
Level 1 Wizard (Fire)
Dispel Scroll
Charmed Shield
Hobgoblin Khan
Giant Wolf
Light Armor
Warrior Bane
Core- 653
32 Infernal Guard
Blunderbuss
Full Command
Razor Standard
Special- 555
Deathshrieker Rocket
Magma Cannon
Iron Daemon War Engine
Hellbound
Rare- 535
K'Daai Destroyer
Hell Cannon
Total- 2499