Khaas:
Hello everyone, I’ve been lurking here for some time. I got back into Warhammer last year thanks to my wife, and since then I’ve become obsessed with Chaos, my collection includes about 10k points of Warriors, as well as 3k worth of Chaos themed Ogres and Vampire Counts (Slaanesh and Nurgle respectively). But I’ve always had a soft spot for Chaos Dwarfs since my time working in a gaming store nearly 20 years ago, with the beautifully sculpted FW models and the Tamurkhan book, I think it’s time to turn my attention to the little monsters.
The Chaos Dwarfs aren’t going to be my main army, Warriors I think will always hold that position. But, one thing I really want is a gunline army, everything else I have is so melee heavy. With that in mind, I scribbled up a list and thought I’d post it here for some feedback. I’ve got a lot of models to paint this year, but I figure the Chaos Dwarfs will be a nice reward once I finish what I’m currently working on.
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Total Points 2497, 12 units, 105 models
Sorcerer Prophet (General, Level 4, Lore of Hashut)
�-� Charmed Shield
�-� Book of Ashur
Daemonsmith Sorcerer (Level 2, Lore of Death)
�-� Dispel Scroll
Daemonsmith Sorcerer (Level 2, Lore of Death)
�-� Channeling Staff
Dark Castellean (BSB, Great Weapon)
�-� Trickster’s Helm
�-� Dawn Stone
19 Infernal Ironsworn (Full Command)
�-� War Banner
Note: BSB goes here…
10 Infernal Guard (Mus, Std, Blunderbusses)
10 Infernal Guard (Mus, Std, Blunderbusses)
�-� Banner of Slavery
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Mus, Std, Bows)
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Mus, Std, Bows)
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Mus, Std, Bows)
Dreadquake Mortar (Slave Ogre)
Dreadquake Mortar (Slave Ogre)
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Typical gunline strategy, sorcerers will be on foot with the Earthshakers - so I feel like I can run them a bit cheaper. Ironsworn to the front as an anvil, I wonder about having a unit of cavalry for taking out runners and hitting flanks though. But for now, I’m trying to follow the KISS theory of design. I’ve never played Chaos Dwarfs, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Grimbold Blackhammer:
Unfortunately I don’t think you’re list is going to work. I don’t think gunlines work especially well at the best of times but I see some serious flaws here.
I’d cut down the number of wizards to just one or two. And I definitely wouldn’t take the Book of Ashur on your Sorcerer-Prophet. For what he costs, he NEEDS a ward save. And that extra pip to casting isn’t going to earn back its’ cost. I’ve never heard of 10 Blunderbussers doing anything other than getting run down. Then again I have had abysmal luck with them so I admit I could be wrong there. And I think it is generally agreed the Dreadquake Mortar is the absolute worst of the war machines. Turn those into something/anything else.
Sorry to be the bad-news guy =(
mistrmoon:
Sadly I’d agree. You don’t have enough shooting to be put a serious dent in anything and you don’t have enough combat power to deal with the enemy when they get to you. And i assure you they will.
-I’d keep the Sorc Prophet but def drop the book, not even close to worth its points.
-Drop one engineer and make the other lvl1 and go for LoFire.
-Decision time: Go all gunline or just make a balanced list; if you go all gunline drop the BSB.
-Add some single khans on wolf to block/intercept/cannon hunt etc…
-If you want to go all gunline drop the ironsworn. They are super tough but as your only CC unit they will just get flanked. They are also the only target for doom spells so they are going to take an absolute pounding.
-take some of the points you’ve saved and beef up those blunderbuss units to 20+.
-Add Death Shrieker x 2
-Add Magma cannon x 2 (or 3)
-Swap both dreadquakes for a pair of Hellcannons.
I have no idea how many points that is now but it should be somewhere around right.
Khaas:
Good points, and thanks guys. Here’s a revised list.
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Total Points 2489, 11 units, 110 models
Sorcerer Prophet (General, Level 4, Lore of Hashut)
�-� Charmed Shield
�-� Talisman of Preservation
Daemonsmith Sorcerer (Level 1, Lore of Fire)
�-� Dispel Scroll
Hobgoblin Khan (Wolf, Light Armor, Shield)
�-� Biting Blade
�-� Dragon Helm
Hobgoblin Khan (Wolf, Light Armor)
�-� Relic Sword
�-� Enchanted Shield
�-� Dragonbane Gem
20 Infernal Guard (Std, Fireglaives)
20 Infernal Guard (Std, Fireglaives)
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Std, Bows)
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Std, Bows)
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Std, Bows)
Death Shrieker Rocket
Death Shrieker Rocket
Magma Cannon
Magma Cannon
Magma Cannon
Hellcannon
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I went to Fireglaives, on the assumption Infernal Guard will eventually end up in CC. Gave the Khans a little bit of gear to make them a little more reliable against Ethereals, etc. 10 points short, not sure what to grab really.
Samanos:
that list is not gonna get you any friends (possibly even opponents)
some points:
-i see that all of you infantry has standards… why is that? I would switch it with musos so they can perform a swift reform and shoot.
-a shield removes the fast cavarly from your character, so i’d drop that too.
-your core is around 1000 pts. CD play with absolute minimum core (because we have so much better special and rare options)
-you have 6 (!) machines but only two engineers… I actually liked your idea with 2 lvl 2 death (i field something similar myself) but I dont think the lore matches (short range for chars that are usually in the back) maybe lvl4 death and 2 lvl 2 fire instead? a powerful combo especially if you combine it with hellcannon and chalice.
- maybe remove a magma (or two!) and reduce core to minimum (625 pts for your list) that way you free up points for more redirectors and units that can actually deal with units your machines cannot.
Khaas:
Thanks Samanos, following your advice I made a few changes. Most notably, I went with my initial gut reaction and added a couple of small units of Bull Centaurs with GW, I also consolidated my Core to a single unit of 24 Infernal Guards and 2 units of Hobgoblins. I also corrected the issue with the Standards, I retained 3 for Blood and Glory scenarios, but now they are on units that can actually move (the Renders and the Guard).
Anyhow, here’s how the list looks now, I feel like it’s getting closer to being something serious.
Good points, and thanks guys. Here’s a revised list.
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Total Points 2479, 11 units, 80 models
Sorcerer Prophet (General, Level 4, Lore of Death)
�-� Charmed Shield
�-� Talisman of Preservation
Daemonsmith Sorcerer (Level 2, Lore of Fire)
�-� Dispel Scroll
Hobgoblin Khan (Wolf, Light Armor)
�-� Tormentor Sword
�-� Dragon Helm
Hobgoblin Khan (Wolf, Light Armor)
�-� Warrior Bane
�-� Dragonbane Gem
24 Infernal Guard (Std, Mus, Fireglaives)
�-� Banner of Eternal Flame
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Mus, Bows)
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Mus, Bows)
3 Bull Center Renders (GW, Mus, Std)
3 Bull Center Renders (GW, Mus, Std)
Death Shrieker Rocket
Death Shrieker Rocket
Death Shrieker Rocket
Magma Cannon
Hellcannon
Hellcannon
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Currently I’m short a few points and deciding what to do with them, I could drop a level from the Smith and grab a third Khan, however he’d basically be naked. If I were to take a third, I’d like to find the points to put Ruby Ring of Ruin on him for some surprise Fireball action. But, I’m open to other ideas.
Grimbold Blackhammer:
I run Khan’s naked. Their job isn’t to kill things. It is to get in the way and be a nuisance. If you need points, that’s the perfect place to get them!
Khaas:
I see what you mean, surprised at how cheap those are. Anyhow, it’s decided a third Khan with Ruby Ring of Ruin it is!
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Total Points 2498, 11 units, 81 models
Sorcerer Prophet (General, Level 4, Lore of Death)
�-� Charmed Shield
�-� Talisman of Preservation
Daemonsmith Sorcerer (Level 1, Lore of Fire)
�-� Dispel Scroll
Hobgoblin Khan (Wolf, Light Armor)
�-� Ruby Ring of Ruin
Hobgoblin Khan (Wolf, Light Armor)
Hobgoblin Khan (Wolf, Light Armor)
24 Infernal Guard (Std, Mus, Fireglaives)
�-� Banner of Eternal Flame
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Mus, Bows)
20 Hobgoblin Cutthroats (Mus, Bows)
3 Bull Center Renders (GW, Mus, Std)
3 Bull Center Renders (GW, Mus, Std)
Death Shrieker Rocket
Death Shrieker Rocket
Death Shrieker Rocket
Magma Cannon
Hellcannon
Hellcannon
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I dropped the Fire Sorcerer to level 1, I’m impressed with the Renders on paper, though I’ve not had any experience with them yet. There’s one local that has a Chaos Dwarf army he commissioned from a Golden Daemon winner, beautifully painted army, but not sure how effective it is (haven’t had a chance to play against it yet).
Samanos:
In my experience the renders are very good but in your list their numbers are a bit small…
let me explain what I mean:
the renders have T5, 3W and a 3+ save. and gw (thats s6 on cc).
but only 2 attacks…(and a stomp against certain unit types).
as you might see they are very durable BUT not that killy.
your units of three will be excellent in handling those annoying warmachine hunters and act as last resort redirectors.
Imo if they were a bit bigger (say 4-5 each unit or just one big unit of 6+) they would also be able to handle dangerous units that your machines have decimated beforehand) in their current numbers they wont last long (there are many s5 things now in the game and more are on their way from gw plus you’ll be surpriced at how worthless a 3+ becomes when your renders suffer s5+ wounds)
I am not saying they are worthless (i use them myself 
but maybe your current setup with them is not the best. (still the only way to really find out is trial and error i believe, so feel free to test them and see for yourself)
Khaas:
I see what you mean Samanos, thanks for all of your help. I guess an alternative would be to move the Standards to the Cutthroats (really would rather keep 3 Standards in the army for Blood and Glory). And consolidate the two units of Renders into a single 6 man unit, but I’ll probably try it out as is for a bit just to see. As cheap as they are, I’m leaning toward the larger unit as you suggest.
I guess my problem is that I mainly play MSU style Warriors and Ogres, so I’m sure that colors some of my decisions. This army (like my Vampires) is wholly different from what I normally play with.