Here it is, i’m starting a new army of chaos dwarf, using the RAVENING HORDES I’m starting directly to built a 3000pts list because i think it’s the best to develop all the aspect of an army. My force will be a garrison based at Uzkulak, frequently fighting back against marauders and organasing slaving rush by the sea.
LORDS: -Sorcerer level 4 with the fozrik fortress. 325pts Lore of shadow. (General) Mr Saruman! Level four casting his spell from his high magic tower, providing him LOS on all the battle field and good protection + larger command area.
-Chaos dwarf overlord on great taurus with talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, heavy armor and great weapon. 417pts ’Cause the scibor miniature is howsome! He will hide behind the tower at the start of the game and then, he will go threatened the flancs and rear of the opponents forces. I think that he is pretty good equiped with a 3+/4+ + 2+ ward save against fire and S6, that would be enough i suppose…
HEREOS: -Banner standard bearer with Gazrakh armor and sword of might. 135pts
-Sorcerer level 2 with catalysor and dark gemme of Gnar. 150pts Lore of metal.
CORE UNITS: -20 blunderbuss with banner and musician. 260pts Join the mighty sorcerer in his tower to provide him fire power by shooting at 360°. In addition, they become very hard to break threw so my general is quite safe.
-2X 25 chaos dwarfs warriors with heavy weapons and full command squad. 610pts Joined by the heroes, they are deployed on each side of the black fortress and are the base of my close combat hability.
-40 hobgoblins with musician. 90pts Because everyone deserve canon flesh and living shield!
SPECIAL UNITS: -2X Roquet launcher. 160pts Deployed behind the tower to be protected from fire en assaut. Primary target: monsters, characters and infantry massed formations (working good with lore of shadow).
-2X 30 orques archers with musician. 380pts In hordes, they will be able to shoot 60arrows per phase and i hope that combined to the lore of shadow spell N°3, they will be able to kill as many figure as possible. Then, Orkham mindrazors will be perfect to them thought^^
-2X Bolt thrower. 60pts Not expensive, i will certainly deploy them in the corners, forcing the enemy to separate. Can eventually kill or hurt some big stuff and i will be happy.
RARE UNITS: -2X Earthshaker canon. 220pts Must have! Very usefull to slow down opponents moove, especially combined with miasma.
-8 Bull centaurs with heavy armour and eternal flamme banner. 193pts Chock unit, dployed behind the wolfriders in order to have some cover.
Interesting! I’ve never seen someone use the folding tower before, but it’s an interesting ploy. All I have to say is that it better be a big one to fit 21 guys! I’m guessing the new witchfate tor tower? I only wonder about the range on the tower. I guess that you will be playing defensively with this list.
A few notes on the list. First off, what is the Catalysor? That’s one that’s been lost in translation. Also, I’m guessing the force potion is the potion if strength, although that is an easier one to figure out. I’m not a huge fan of the potions, because they turn one bad round of combat into a complete failure of the character to do their job.
Still… An interesting tactic and an interesting list. I recommend that you build your own template for blunderbuss fire from the tower, though.
Interesting! I've never seen someone use the folding tower before, but it's an interesting ploy.
Redhammer
Pretty much have gotten the same treatment as the power scroll around here, which means the item is banned. Outside of tournaments its use is deeply frowned upon. That said, this may vary depending on club/gaming envoirment.
As for the list. I'd probably go for another L2 sorc instead of your fast cavalry. Another channeling attempt, access to more spells(which is a good thing for those days when your other two sorcs decides to fail to cast some spells).
I very much like your hobgoblin archers and how you intend to use them.
Really? Huh. I didn’t think the tower would be banned. It’s a nice advantage, but I don’t see why it’s ban worthy. It doesn’t seem to be a value beyond it’s 100 point cost, at least! I don’t think I can come up with any truly good reasons to ban it.
As for the fast cavalry… They are nice, but one unit is likely to just get blasted and forgotten. Still, they are a very useful unit that adds tactical depth to the list as a whole. Not sure if another wizard in the days of random power dice is worth it. You’re more likely to have a day that you don’t get enough power dice than a day your two wizards fail early on and you still have a surplus of dice.
The tower banned? Difficult to believe, it’s more fun than really efficient.
And even if this tool is banned in the united states official tournaments (It’s a USA forum…right???) this restriction surely don’t apply to local events. And mostly important for me, it don’t apply in France so i can relax ^^
Yeah my army is more defensive than offensive but i can still change my tactic by mooving to the ennemy with the great taurus, the 2cavalry units and others. I plan to have this kind of deployment:
Hobgoblins Warriors GREAT TOWER OF ZHAR-A-TUSTRA Warriors Hobgoblins Bulls
Wolfriders
"Catalyseur" is the french equivalent for the cabalistic item allowing to channel a PD or DD on 5+ rather than 6+, it’s better than a power stone to my mind.
Yeah you guess right, i wanted to say stength potion.
I’m agree, the potion is not good if my lord miss his attacks but what could i take instead?
Don’t like the perspective to ad an other sorcerer, it doesn’t help to have a better magic phase, i prefer to play a fluffic unit of wolfriders^^
It is an international forum. I’m from sweden for example but you are right, the ban is not official by any means(or even a national ban).
Catalyseur = Channelling Staff
As for the lord I’d opt for an Dragonhelm, talisman of preservation and Ogre Blade + Heavy armour and shield. This would give you a 3+ AS and 4+ ward(2+ vs fire) and 4 S6 attacks. Throw in the potion of speed to bump up your initiative to 7 might be a good thing as well. This makes your lord more expensive but also more durable and much more potent in close combat.
One should never underestimate the value of having one more attempt at channelling. Give it a power stone you got the option to “save” a magic phase. But fair enough you made your point.
Yeah, I actualy doubt Americans are te majority on this forum. It hasn’t seemed so to me, at least.
Dancehat does make a good point on chanelling. 3 wizards would give you a 50/50 chance of chanellingan extra dice every turn, statistically. It is something I underestimate because my main army (regular Dwarfs) doesn’t do the whole magic thing. Thanks for the translation clarification.
The potion of strength, IMO, is worse than the sword of might, which is +1S every turn. More reliable, which let’s you plan a better strategy. It also costs the same, so less list reworking. Still, I would kit the lord out a little better anyways, using more of his magic gear allowance.
EDIT: just realized you can’t give the lord more because lord point restrictions. Hmm… In this instance I’m going to have to say a plain old great weapon may be the way to go. It no longer gives only +1S when mounted but the full +2.
Talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, heavy armor, great weapon. Better armor, same ward save, hard hitting. That’s what I can come up with off the top of my head. 67 points of gear, so maybe a shield as well to help against ranged attacks. Bit heftier of a character for a little cheaper cost!
Hey Dromar! Nice to see you here! Another french Hashut follower!
The tower banned? Difficult to believe, it’s more fun than really efficient.
No it can be very hard! It begins to be banned in tournament with limitations in France : (@Dromar : par exemple, à Briare, en ce moment même, un joueur joue He avec 50 gardes phénix dans une tour + Teclis vie + Archi mort : -1D3 force puis être du dessous avec une unité imprenable… For English spokers, one example of no limit use of the fortress : in High Elf Army : Teclis life+ level 4 death fortress + 50 phenix guard : -1D3 strengh then “esprit du dessous” of life (spirit below or something like that) = ouch!)
For Hashut followers, another use of the fortress : a friend played 50 blunderbusses with level 4 fortress and other characters in the fortress : tower with many storeys (i think that it was 3) : GW makes a mistake I haven’t ever note in writing the errata of CD : blunderbusses in a tower have no limitation of strengh as they have when they are in rank : no doubt it’s an oversight of the conceptors… But it’s not written… So they can be very tricky uses of the fortress and blunderbusses, even if to me, strengh should be limited to 5…
I will comment the list later (and edit my post) but for now, you have arrers boys orcs for one point more and better than hobgobs bowmen…
That sounds cool to me, i’m re-writing my post. EDIT: here we are, i gave to my lord: talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, heavy armor and great weapon. I’ve also removed one bolt thrower to add 2chaos dwarf warriors and finaly, my list is exactly 3000pts! Thanks all!
Giving a unit -1D3 strenght doesn’t count for a strenght test 'cause you use the basic strenght value unmodified. Yeah i know that orcs are better than hobgoblins but theire codex is going to be redone soon so…I’m waiting. And hobgo are more in the army them though…
So let’s sum up the strategy: My sorcerer lord is hiding into his black tower with the squad of blunderbuss. I’m planing to deploy it in the center in order to disturb my opponent moves. The tower provide 360° LOS on all the battlefield for my spell caster and his bodyguard, Cover and additionnal protections against assauting troops. In addition to that, the tower will be big enough to hide a part of my artillery so that it will be hard to destroy it. (I’m taking advantage of the stone thrower way of shooting).
I choose the lore of shadow for two main reasons: -First, it’s a long range lore, the spells are quite easy to cast and it’s very important 'cause my sorcerer won’t have many occasions to moove. -2nd, this lore is specialized in curses that slow down the ennemy or his resistance/stenght which is exactly what i need for my archers, artillry and others shock troops. Miasma are a nice combo with the earthshaker special rule.
The apprentice took the lore of metal cause the primary spell is very usefull against armored targets and the lore have a boost very usefull for archers and blunderbuss + a spell that increase protections of my units around + the ultimate transformation… Quite cool indeed!
So my sorcerer and the blunderbuss are center-deployed into the magic tower, flancqued by the two units of warriors joined by the BSB and the apprentice. Behind them, i deploy my artillery and the overlord on great taurus. On the left and right sides, the hobgoblins, close enough to the tower and on one flanc, the cavalry.
My plan is to curse the ennemy units with miasma and withering then shot them down with archers and earthshakers. I’m gonna use earthshaker to forbid dangerous target from fleeing my Great taurus charge, i’m thinking about the chaos demon burners (those with a mass of fire and big moove) or slow down the progress of the ennemy line.
LORDS:
-Sorcerer level 4 with the fozrik fortress. 325pts
Lore of shadow. (General)
OK. I prefer the lore of death but I should test again the shadow lore.
-Chaos dwarf overlord on great taurus with talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, heavy armor and great weapon. 417pts
4+ save 4+ ward save, hard to keep this guy alive till the end of the game. Give him a shield.
I don't know what is the goof equipment for him as I haven't play him in V8.
HEREOS:
-Banner standard bearer with Gazrakh armor and sword of might. 135pts
-Sorcerer level 2 with catalysor and dark gemme of Gnar. 150pts
Lore of metal
BSB : good.
Level 2 : "channeling staff". I have the same choice of lore and you need one to manage a Steam tank or a hydra. Level 1 is enough most of the time. I think you need a dispel scroll in V8 with such strong spells...
CORE UNITS:
-20 blunderbuss with banner and musician. 260pts
Not enough blunderbusses for what you want. 30+ to me or GW Chaos dwarfs.
-2X 25 chaos dwarfs warriors with heavy weapons and full command squad. 610pts
Good.
-2X 30hobgobelins with bow and musician. 320pts
In hordes, they will be able to shoot 60arrows per phase and i hope that combined to the lore of shadow spell N°3, they will be able to kill as many figure as possible. Then, Orkham mindrazors will be perfect to them thought^^
Not convinced at all, and even if the OG army book will be available soon, arrers boys are better. And arrers boys should stay the same in the new book.
-10 wolfriders with bow and musician. 150pts
Ok if you love them. Pretty expensive though... Never played them.
SPECIAL UNITS:
-2X Roquet launcher. 160pts
Good.
-2X Bolt thrower. 60pts
Ok as they are very cheap.
RARE UNITS:
-2X Earthshaker canon. 220pts
Must have!
AS you said, must have!:)
-8 Bull centaurs with heavy armour and eternal flamme banner. 193pts
OK
You lack naked hobgoblins units : two units by ten to redirect charges, and two units by 35+ to be steadfast even if hobgobs bowmens can do it.
My lord on great taurus can’t take more equipment and the dragonhelm give him 3+ AS with heavy armour and mounted so it’s quite resistant! I’m planing to hide him behind tower and building.
20blunderbuss are quite enough to shoot from the tower and i won’t loose S5 before 6casualties…
Ok, i’m going to change hobgoblins for orques archers, they realy do a better job as they have +1T, S and LD.
I like the deployment plan. That hobgoblin unit up in front of the tower can be a severe roadblock if played deep with the general and the BSB nearby! Great defensive army!
However, I found deployment plans to only work so far. You’ll have to play to terrain, and what happens if the scenario calls for you to be aggressive? Do you have any plans for those kinds of situations?
Well, i don’t know yet, i have to test but first i have to built my army^^
I think i will use my great taurus and bull-centaurs on a flank to threatened a specific part of my opponent force and moove threw the no man’s land with warriors and hobgoblins. I will have to let some troops at the rear to protect my general and the artillery.
Sorry for the multipost but i have some questions:
Since our bull-centaurs don’t strike first with heavy weapons when they charge, is it better to give them additionnal hand weapon? But they are cavalry! Can they benefit from the +1A?
What do you think about giving the lore of shadow to my apprentice? I will have 2sorcerers from the lore of shadow and accessory cast twice the miasma spell… And i will have better chance to select the spells that i’m looking for!
An i have doutes on the blunderbussers: are they really efficient? They have realy short range…
New list with differents squd and strategy, what do you say guys?
LORDS: -Sorcerer level 4 with the fozrik fortress. 325pts Lore of shadow. (General) Mr Saruman! Level four casting his spell from his high magic tower, providing him LOS on all the battle field and good protection + larger command area.
-Chaos dwarf overlord on great taurus with talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, heavy armor, great weapon.417pts ’Cause the scibor miniature is howsome! He will hide behind the tower at the start of the game and then, he will go threatened the flancs and rear of the opponents forces. I think that he is pretty good equiped with a 3+/4+ + 2+ ward save against fire and S6, that would be enough i suppose…
HEREOS: -Banner standard bearer with Gazrakh armor and sword of might, shield. 137pts
-Sorcerer level 1 with catalysor and dark gemme of Gnar. 115pts Lore of shadow.
CORE UNITS: -15 blunderbuss with musician. 190pts Join the mighty sorcerer in his tower to provide him fire power by shooting at 360°. In addition, they become very hard to break threw so my general is quite safe.
-2X 24 chaos dwarfs warriors with heavy weapons and full command squad. 588pts Joined by the heroes, they are deployed on each side of the black fortress and are the base of my close combat hability.
-40 hobgoblins. 80pts Because everyone deserve canon flesh and living shield!
-10 wolfriders with light armour and shield, musician. 140pts
SPECIAL UNITS: -2X Roquet launcher. 160pts Deployed behind the tower to be protected from fire en assaut. Primary target: monsters, characters and infantry massed formations (working good with lore of shadow).
-20 black orques with musician, champion and banner. 275pts
-2X Bolt thrower. 60pts Not expensive, i will certainly deploy them in the corners, forcing the enemy to separate. Can eventually kill or hurt some big stuff and i will be happy.
RARE UNITS: -2X Earthshaker canon. 220pts Must have! Very usefull to slow down opponents moove, especially combined with miasma.
-8 Bull centaurs with heavy armour and eternal flamme banner. 193pts Chock unit, dployed behind the wolfriders in order to have some cover.
I recommend making the apprentice wizard a shadow mage. I have experimented with a metal mage and I feel like they are too situational.
so about the bull centaurs, I would keep the great weapons I really like them for a mobile punch unit. but I run a lvl 4 death, since you are running a level 4 shadow, I can see how additional hand weapons might work better if you plan on casting okkams mindrazor on them. just keep in mind that you should keep them in a wider formation to take full advantage of their extra attack, otherwise they only get one supporting attack from the second rank.
about the legality of using additional hand weapons on cavalry, you should agree with your opponent before the game to use the chaos dwarf online FAQ. this will allow them to utilize the additional hand weapons. you are using the Ravening Hordes list correct?
I would drop the blunderbuss unit. I have found that in 8th edition their range is too short and sometimes they can only fire once, on a stand and shoot. and if your opponent starts from outside of 12" then the blunderbuss fire as soon as they are in range, usually resulting in just the front rank getting shot. I have found that if you are going to use blunderbuss it is better to use multiple units, 3 or 4, that way you can maneuver them to be the most effective.
about your list, I dont think fozzricks fortress is a good choice. your wizard doesn’t really need line of sight very often with shadow magic. I would either drop the hobgoblin wolf riders or bring them up to 15 so that they can charge flanks and disrupt ranks while still having room to take casualties. I don’t really like using hgwr in 8th edition and Here’s why, rolling 5 and 6 to hit while shooting is difficult and if you are shooting at war machines you’ll then require 6’s to wound. also if you charge them at war machines you will only be allowed to fight with 2 models against the crew. they are also a big unit and can’t easily maneuver like other armies fast cav. lastly if you put a character in the unit they will lose the fast cav ability. I would prefer to arm them with light armour and shield and make sure they have a musician.
I would add a musician to your unit of 40 hobgoblins, that way if you don’t like the formation that they are in you can do a swift reform without losing much speed. of course keep them near the general if you plan on doing this.
I would try to bring at least one the units of cd’s to 30 or even 40 so you can try horde formation. Hording chaos dwarfs are really mean in combat.
other than that I like the list. it seems pretty good with its heavy shooting. and after the opponent has been weakened you have some solid blocks to come in and finish them off.
I love my tower, it can hide the machines and the overlord from fire during the deployment and the sorcerer is protected from fire and assaut. And it’s fluffy so i won’t let it go^^
I liek to have some dispendable units, using them to slow down the ennemy so i need archers that i can sacrifice without remorse.
I’m thinking of deleting the blacks orques to take an other blunderbuss unit and pass the chaos dwarfs units from 24 to 29 in hordes… What should be better? Black orques seems to give a little bit more variety in the list… Anyway, i changed the lore of my apprentice, shadow is definitly the best lore for this guy.
