[Archive] 6 months with my chaos dwarfs... playtesting scores of a magic list

Alan the evil:

Hi all.
I finished to test my magic army list and I want to share with the forum my results,
I modified my first list posted in april in this final list in the FIGW Classic and EURO formats

These are the rules of the formats.

Classic (2250 pt)

Not more than 3 core units equal choices (except for basic equipped units)
Not more than 2 special units equal choices
No rare units same choice
Not more than 5 war machine
Not more than 10 power or dispel dices (1st bound spell counts 1 PD, following bound spells count 2 PD; 1st dispel scroll counts 1 DD, following 2DD)

Euro (2250 pt)

it’s like classic with the follwing exceptions:
9 power dice
not more than 45 shooters
VC and DoC play with 2000 pt armylists
DoW, ogres, O&G and beastmen play with 2500 pt armylists
and there are some specify rules for some armies.

These are the lists:


Sorcerer lord 4° liv + power stone + dispel scroll + black gem pt 310 (into 22 warriors unit)
Sorcerer 2° liv + power stone + dispel scroll pt 150
Sorcerer 1° liv + staff of sorcery pt 115
BC BSB + armour of gazrakh + sword of might pt 175 (into 22 warriors unit)

22 warriors + full command + warbanner pt 253
20 warriors + full command + great weapon pt 250
19 blunderbusses pt 228

20 hobgoblins + light armour + shield pt  80
10 hobgoblins + bow pt  50
10 hobgoblins + bow pt  50
10 hobgoblins + light armour + shield + wolf + musician pt 140

8 black orcs + heavy aromur + shield pt 112
bolt thrower pt  30
bolt thrower pt  30
bolt thrower pt  30
bolt thrower pt  30

5 bullcentaures + heavy aromur + shield + great weapon pt 105
earthshaker pt 110

Euro (here i must to drop power stones for the PDs limitation)

Sorcerer lord 4° liv + dispel scroll + black gem + talisman of protection pt 300 (into 22 warriors unit)
Sorcerer 2° liv + dispel scroll pt 125
Sorcerer 1° liv + staff of sorcery pt 115
BC BSB + armour of gazrakh + sword of might pt 175 (into 22 warriors unit)

22 warriors + full command + warbanner pt 253
20 warriors + full command + great weapon pt 250
19 blunderbusses pt 228

20 hobgoblins + light armour + shield pt  80
10 hobgoblins + bow pt  50
10 hobgoblins + bow pt  50
10 hobgoblins + light armour + shield + wolf + musician pt 140

8 black orcs + heavy aromur + shield pt 112
bolt thrower pt 30
bolt thrower pt 30
bolt thrower pt 30
death rocket pt 60

5 bullcentaures + heavy aromur + shield + great weapon pt 105
earthshaker pt 110

Now the scores!!


Goblin 18-2
My opponent fielded 3 bolt thrower, 2 chariots, 2 wolf riders units 6 fanatics and a lots of magic… but I sacrified wolfriders for fanatic and manage very well his magic.
At the end of the play I reached and defeated his goblin blocks with his shaman and easy GG :hat off

Empire 10-10
Old buddy and expert WH player shows a steam tank and the pope on chariot with 2 cannons and lot of shot.
We know each other very well. Usually if he doesn’t loose tank or pope and I defend my big block with sorcerer lord and BSB it’s draw… and so it was! :wink:

Caos 0-20
Heavy magic and heavy cavalries (two little nurgle cavalries and one bigger of khorne)
Nothing to say except that in the first four magic phases he casted 3 times infernal gate with double six… :o
Twice with 11 hits and the third with strong 12!! No available test…

Caos 10-10
After the previous game we play again because I didn’t have fun.
He found again infernal gate… but this time I field my unit far away from his sorcerer lord and manage his heavy cavalries with BTs find a precious draw

Caos 14-6
Following day we play again…
No infernal gate!! I play quite free, forcing his khorne cavalry to go where I want and reach his sorcerer lord with hobgoblin!!
They died by the hand of the choosens but taking half of the sorcerer points!!
BTs and spirit of the forge did the rest! :hat off

Skaven (old list) 18-2
He fielded a big 30 models of stormvermin with BSB and warlord, 2 scroll caddies, 3 ratlin, 14 jezzail, cannon warp and a wide tide of slave and clan rats.
It was a draw until the final fight with our great blocks.
In his turn 5 he charged me in the front and gutter runner on the side… but I passed the test by BSB.
We stand and fight until my last turn 6 when I charged on the side his stormvermin with my few Black orcs… but enough to take away his bonus rank and win the game! :wink:

Bretonnia 16-4
Thanks to spirite of the forge and war machine!!
He didn’t arrive to me with lots of stuff on turn 2… :cheers

Empire 10-10
What I previously said?? It’s still valid… :o

VC 10-10
Lots of skeletons, heavy magic, grave skeletons with 4+ TS and VC, wolves, gosts and wraths with banshee…
How many I killed, so many he evoked!! It was a tiring and tight game… a draw could be the only score

Dark elves (tournament game) 10-10
Very stupid game. :expressionless: He was afraid to loose and putted Hydra, witches and sorcerer lord 4 liv back and into a wood he had got in his fielding area.
He didn’t move them until his last turn 6 and nothing more happened in the game.
he shooted me for 3 turns and I taked back my points with the survivors that charged his shot units.

Caos (tournament game) 0-20
What da…??? :o
He had Chaos dragon, dragonogres and 3 heavy cavalries. Not heavy in magic. Some marauders like light cavalries.
He started first. In my turn I didn’t score any wounds with 4 BT on the dragon and 20 missiles on light cavalry. HS blew away because of misfire.
In magic phase like first spell I tried to cast a fireball with 2 dices scoring a double 1!! (and magic phase is over!!)
On his turn 2 he arrived with all!! I survived until turn 5 (it was so hurting… but I was deeply touched by my poor dawi zhars resistence) but noone saw turn 6…
You think this was an unlucky game?? So check the next out…

VC (tournament game) 0-20
He had 2 ghouls units, 1 zombie unit, 1 heavy cavalry with VC, the general was on foot in the zombie unit(???), ghosts, wolves and wraths (without banshee).
I was surprise by this army… it didn’t seem to hard to defeat… and so was for three turns in which I easily manage him.
At the beginning of my turn 4 this was the situation:
He remained with the unit of zombie with general, 3 riders with VC, 8 goul, some ghosts and few whrats.
My BC unit was in the front of the unit of his general, ready to charge.
My BSB with magic weapon and 1+ of AS was easily killing last wrath (but he had only one wound remain)
Black orks in front of ghoul.
My Big block in the center.
No more hobbos or war machine for me.
I charged ghoul with BO and his zombies with general with BC… but they fail fear test on 9!! (Aawww…!!)
I turne my big block toward his heavy cavalry (even if it needed 2 turn to came)
We go to my magic phase… he dispel my first and second spell and I’m going to cast 2d6 S4 on his ghosts and he had scrolls or dispel dices… but I rolled double 1!
Miscast table: 5. He could cast a free spell. I had no scrolls or dispel dices!
He casted wind of death killing mt BSB (so getting free his wrath) and putting a ghosts base in front of my BCs saving his general.
My black orks didn’t score a single wound and they run away. Ghouls score a 12 pursuing them and reach for half inch the back of my big block (no more ranks!!!).
On his turn 5 he charged me with wrath (now free) on my main unit winning the HtH combatand I failed my Ld test on 8…
…and that’s all folks!! x.x


Empire (tournament game) 10-10
This was not a game with my buddy… but my opponent had a very similar list and he was not a good player like my friend.
He was not too expert and I use his weakness, playing based on his wronged choices…
But in his last turn 6 a friend of him, who already had finish his game, start to follow the game and he noted that my big block was giving the flank to the pope.
It was so because my opponent showed my to be afraid to loose it, forgettin that the popemobil is unbreakble… and I enjoy his fear for take a great advantage…
But his friend explained to him why and how to do. He was so lucky and win the hth combat and I failed a Ld test on 8 changing my 16-4 situation in a draw.
His firend’s behaviour is forbidden… but instead of gave a formal protest to the judge I explained to his friend why he was wrong and why it could be dangerous do do it again…
For this reason I won in this tournament the FAIR PLAY AWARE (i didn’t know that it was :cheers

Khemri (tournament game) 9-11
He had stone thrower, archers, chariots and infantries for his characters… and he came from below!!
He close himself in a corner, threating me with his chariots and involving the game in a draw… but with an hit with his ST on my dwarfs he gained one point more!!

Khemri (tournament game) 4-16
He had same armylist and same strategy of my previous opponent ( and they came from the same club!!)
This time I trying to go and catch him but he played very well his magic phase and I was dominated by him!! And “come from below” worked too much weel for him…

Bretonnia LOST
He was the same friend of the previous bretonnia game… Thanks to spirite of the forge (again!!) and my war machine it seemed another easy victory…
But… surprise!! :o His charges resulted effectives and he rounded my big block with2 unit.  Notwithstanding the double charge they stand but when arrived the third game was over.
We didn’ count the point but it seemed like 15-5 or 16-4 for him

Dwarfs 11-9
He had lot of shoot, magic defense and big blocks… it seemed a draw but what happened to me with khemri now happened to my opponent!! :wink:

VC 20-0
he had 3 ghouls unit, 2 heavy cavalry with characters, wraths with banshee and bats…
He arrived on his turn 2 on my units… but 20 hobbos stand on his cavalry charge (becaues of 4+ TA, Ld 10 of the general and BSB!!) and my rounding BC reach the back of them destroying everything!!
But the best was that my DEATH ROCKET hitted his general!! and it was in a less of 5 cavalry models!! No “look out sir”!! :hat off And he died…
At the beginning of his turn 3 it had almost anything on the field!!

Empire 12-8
Same opponent of ever… but I WIN!! How…?
I shoot with my death rocket (AGAIN!) :wink: on the steam tank… and I GOT IT!! I throw artillery dices and my shoot had gone…
“oh no !!” I thought. But…
my 20 hobbos was fighting with his popemobile (and thay stand because bla, bla, bla … you already know! I just explained…)
And ladies and gentleman the death rocket gone on the pope, destroying the popemobile!! hobbos outnumbered the high priest and he runned away (not too much to be save tO my hobbos pursue!!)
And so one…

These are the final scores:


EURO   :W3 D1 L3

Magic list is good for classic but not so much in euro.
Now I’m gonna modify euro list (because in the centre of italy we usually play this format) in a 2 sorcerers list.
I’m gonna post more about this new list after some playtests.

That’s all…
ThankS for reading. All comments, question or suggestions are welcome.

P.S. I’m also trying in these six months a list with great taurus… but in these formats he doesn’t work good!!


Nice reading. You seem to have the same tournament performances as mine! I have a decent score during friendly games but during tournaments my heartshaker seems to blow more often and my spells miscast more often. Maybe its just my lack of experience during tournies :wink:

I love to read about the last battle when the rocket misfired… on the pope! lol Hobgoblins always kill something important XD

Border Reiver:

Nicely done. Good at keeping the lists and playtesting for a year. I find I make many chages after each game and my results vary so much I may try this odea.

Alan the evil:


I don’t think it’s lack of experience… we are just unlucky (or “sfigati” if you prefear…)

And yes: hobbos infantry always repay themselves!!

border reiver

thanks for what you write…

I’d like people will post long playtesting of their armies too


Do you think that using 3 sorcerers is the best combo when It comes to characters? I’m always scared incase they get charged and killed etc

I’m always tempted to use the following…

Sorcerer lord ° liv + power stone + dispel scroll + black gem pt 310

Sorcerer ° liv + power stone + dispel scroll pt 150

Sorcerer ° liv + power stone + dispel scroll pt 150

Hob Hero on wolf w/heavy armour, enchanted shield and sword of might…

Alan the evil:

ross lionheart

about characters setting: I can’t play without a BSB…

With Ld 10 the possiblity to reroll combat tests it’s a great weapon against any enemy… and a unit of 20 hobbos close to general and BSB it’s hard to defeat.

I thought to use the 3rd sorcerer just for one reason.

I want to point that i’m forced to play with dispel and power dices limited…

so I cannot use many power stones (like enemies…)  and I use the 3 rd sorcerer at lev 1 with staff of sorcery only to have +1 dispel dice and +1 to dispel… and he usually stays in a wood or a building without cast spell… he always has only the spell #1 of lore of shade to protect himself, so it’s hard to loose him… don’t understimate the staff: it’s always usefull, mainly against empire, khemri, VC evocations and any army without a sorcerer/wizard lord… I tested it for a longe time and I’m very satisfied!

Sorcerer lord has got his black gem that could save him from a fast death in HtH combat (and don’t forget T5… he is hard to loose) and if you have BSB in the same unit he is hard even to be broken!!

Only second sorcerer is easy to loose… so I suggest you to use before his power stone and his dispel scroll…!!

Now, like I previosly said, I m gonna drop the liv 1 sorcerer for another fighting hero…

which one??

I don’t like to much hero hobgoblin because of animosity: in a unit of wolf riders i could not use him… and leave him alone is dangerous because it’s fragile…

BCs are always better: +1 T, +1 A, +2 Ld and can use GW with +2 S…

a BC hero with GW and armour of fournace and shield has got: 4A S6, 3+ AS on shoot, 5+ TS and is immune to fire… and If I need I could improve his AS in HtH combat up to 2+ using his basic S4… and he’s not animose!!

I’m gonna test and post!!


A late reply i know - We play with the same kind of rules.

I find this is the best list you can make with "euro style " rules.

It is very much a meet and grind list, with loads of shooting - i use the archers to shoot but also to stall and redirect. (just like 10 men hobgob units - but the bows are worth the 30p especially against elf’s.)

I am not sure about the black orc’s but it’s nice to have a unit that can fight and win on it’s own. Also I Tank alot especially with the BSB.

Bull Centaur lord @263

Black Hammer of Hashut, Armour of the Furnace, Shield

Bull Centaur Battle Standard @175

Battle Standard, Armour of Gazarakh

Sword of Might

Sorcerer @115

2 x Dispel Magic Scroll

Sorcerer @90

Dispel Magic Scroll

22 x Chaos Dwarf Warriors @228

Standard, Musician, champion

21 x Chaos Dwarf Warriors @219

Standard, Musician, champion

12 x Chaos Dwarf Blunderbusses @144

10 x Hobgoblin Wolf Riders @150

Wolf , Light Armour , Shield, Standard, Musician

10 x Hobgoblin Archers @50

10 x Hobgoblin Archers @50

10 x Hobgoblin Archers @50

2 x Hobgoblin Bolt Trower @60

2 x Hobgoblin Bolt Trower @60

20 x Black orc�?Ts @323

Shields, Standard, Musician, War banner

6 x Bull Centaurs @156

Heavy Armour, Standard, Musician

Earthshaker @110

Gar Shadowfame:

the general was on foot in the zombie unit
Zombies cant be joined by characters


Sounds like some fun games there :slight_smile:

They comp VCs but not Dark Elves? :o Erm…


Nice read. Back from vacation I’m going to write an Euro list and I will keep your experiences in mind :slight_smile:

Are you going to drop staff of sorcery? I’m curious to see how this new list works.

Keep us updated :slight_smile:

centauro enano:

A very practical and interesting post, eh me much fun reading it, I hope to continue racking up victories in the chaos dwarfs :cheers:cheers


I think we should continue this post - we have very few good builds for “Euro” rules so lets try find the best ones, so we can get some wins for the Chaos dwarfs.

I myself have not played much with a Sorcerer lord, because i find that chaos dwarf’s overwhelming problem is lack of mobility and you really need “Tank” characters to counter that. Also many opponents where i play tool up against magic with max DD and scrolls.


Interesting read Evil Alan.

I’m new to the Chaos dwarfs so I picked up a lot. but one question, what do 8 Black orcs do? how do u use them?

oh and qwe50, Black orcs cant have a Warbanner if I’m not mistaken.


why not ? they can have a 50p magic banner from the CD list.

Alan the evil:

I’m reading now your replays… I’m gonna try to answer to everybody…

first opf all: gar

Zombies cant be joined by characters
you’re right but I didn’t know. When I told this story to other player he pointed the same. So i went to check out and I discovered that he tried to trick me!! But he really put a carachter into zombie unit!! Now I know and noone could trick me again in this way!!


the reason to have a sorcerer lord on foot with the gem is because
1- we give Ld 10 to all the units in the center of the table (included slaves) that could reroll combat test. The unit of 20 hobgbolin with l/a and shield close to main bolck it’s hard to defeat!! (like I said many and many times… but they are my favorite unit: they did the unthinkble!!) and even archers could stand on the carghe of light cavalry (it happened to me more than some times)
2- sorcerer lord grant a good magic phase but also a good magic defence!! you have enough slots for dispels and staff.
3- tha big block of warriors always grants 3 ranks and number. It also bear a standard, BSB and war banner. Charged on front it starts with +7 in combat result. Sorcerer lord has got slot to carry the gem avoiding the attacks of charger units - expecially charachters - helping the unit  to be preatty unbreakble. And this  also avoid charge of big monsters!!


I like little hammer units of black orcs because they are to much expensive. a big unit take me away lots of points for other units and it is the target of everything during the battle.
More BO: less units: BO easy target: risk to loose a lots of points hardly to take back with less units…
Ok, they hit hard… but also a single rank hit hard. And if someone want to shoot or cast spell on them… well: I’m glad!! they are just few points and my bigger unit are still total efficent!!
P.S. black orcs could bear a magic standard ONLY in O&G list… as slaves they can’t do it.

I tried a new armylist in EURO format dropping the scroll caddy for the 2nd BC with armour of fornace in a tournament.
I was forced to drop something on sorcerer lord: the staff, the gem or a dispel scroll. I decided to dropp the gem because it is the only item that i’m not sure to use every game. It was a mistake.
In the first game i win 15-5 with a wood elf… but it could be a 18-2 if I had a gem because in his turn 5 he tried a kamikaze charge on my big block with war dancer making the killing blow dance on my sorcerer lord… and he did it!! a single killing blow me cost to me 3 victory points!
in the second game I was massacrad by orc and goblins… (so sad!!)
He had all the carachters on chariot and they stand all close. In first 3 turns with 6 stone throwhers attempts and 9 bolt throwers on the giant I never scored a hit and the BTs scored only one wound to the giant!! notwithstanding of this the gem could save my sorcerer lord from the charge in last turn of his general chariot changing the 0-20 in a 2-18!
absence of gem cost me 5 point in the tournament!!

and for sure: in EURO I will never drop the staff. Too usefull with empire, VC and khemri. Good with everything else ( only eceptions khorne and dwarfs without anvil!!)

now i’m gonna try classic format with INDY GT LIST… i already have an idea…


Did you drop the Gem? Are you crazy? You lost our best protection for our sorcerer lord! :frowning:

In my experience the Gem is way too cool not only to protect your expensive general but also to dictate enemy movements. You know how they are scared to charge your big block of dwarfs with their monsters and uber characters… this could really dictate enemy movements forcing him to combo charge your unit from the flank… and you know it’s not easy because we can screen it with a lot of stuff.

Without the Gem they can charge our block with a suicide charge, loose their wizard unter but killing our precious general with the obvious consequences… if they are a large monster or a killing machine they can even challenge you, overkill you by 5-6 and still hold in combat with just a -2… next turn we’re screwed!

During my vacation I’m going to study the indy GT book as people in my gaming group told me they want to try to game against it. :hat off