Interesting article by Jervis Johnson on his views about the current state of the WH community, written some time ago, but a definite indicator of who was probably behind a lot of the AoS changes.
He is kind of right, I find it tiresome sometimes when people are posting the same old ‘takes on allcomers’ 2000 pt army lists to be critiqued (which by the way all sounded exactly the same) as if all they care about is winning a game of wfb against their opponent at all costs, instead of just enjoying the experience of a battle and being imaginative and coming up with a cool narrative scenario with a friend, and not worrying about who wins and concentrating more on the overall quality of the game itself.
When I used to play Rogue Trader with my older brother back when I was a kid, we didn’t have expensive armies, we just threw down whatever models we had, no points balancing or what have you, mostly because we didn’t have complete enough collections to merit them as what you would call today a points legal ‘army’ (more of a ragtag collection of mini’s we liked the look of the most so spent out pocket money on) we just made sure we had a cool game and enjoyed ourselves and used our favorite models. Maybe if it was a bit unbalanced one of us would bring on some extra models back from the dead, or would get a piece of terrain like a bunker or watch tower to hide behind or find a way to even up the odds somehow. We would always have great fun and enjoy the spirit of the game.
Since GW stated that they have changed the way they operate and now don’t primarily make games anymore and instead concentrate on making expensive collectors style pieces, It’s kind of impossible to expect much more from them really. They have hit the re-set button and made a game impossible to ‘tournament-ise’ or ‘over-competit-ise’ and said basically if you want to do that, go play some other system or make your own rules up to balance for competitive play.
Rick Priestley the original author of WFB left in 2010, and I would suggest that any trace of the original WFB died that day along with his exit from GW.
I found an interesting interview with him tonight too here via Warseer, which prompted me to go looking for the JJ interview earlier
So it feels pointless to be mourning over something that Rick knew was ending over 5 years ago, the writings been on the wall for a while. If you think about it, WFB took about 2 or 3 Editions before it started to pick up traction and become refined and well received, so maybe AoS will just take a while to grow into something as well. What GW have done (which is a bold strategy indeed) is to split off the gaming side and said to other companies , you go and do that. And the result of that is we are now seeing Mantic, 9th Age KoW etc pick up the slack and grow and that particular hardcore gaming community move over to them, which can only be a good thing as it adds more variety that was missing before. My only worry is that aesthetic will take pride of place over gaming practicality now with GW, and the models wont be practical to game with (transporting Nagash around or the Celestant Prime is going to be a battle in itself)
I will be watching keenly with interest from the sidelines to see how things progress over the next few years, but for now I am over the death of Fantasy Battle, Jervis is right it did just turn into an overly competitive bland system. There’s nothing to stop anyone playing a game still with the old rules, plenty to choose from. Now time for something new and refreshing, bring it on.
Or just…you know…play Age of Sigmar. I’ve read this idea a lot of times: that GW now make models, not rules, as if this is some huge change in focus for them. They’ve always been open about being model-driven. Suggesting that AoS is somehow symptomatic of a change in policy strikes me as very weird because there’s nothing wrong with it as a game, and there’s no reason GW wouldn’t be willing to stand by it.
They changed their rules. It’s a different game, with a different set of assumptions, but it’s not objectively worse than Warhammer was. I think the negative reaction that’s prevalent in certain corners of the internet is down to initial reactions to “four pages of rules” that leaked before all the warscrolls came out, and subsequent shock that there were no points values. One of the main problems I think is that a lot of people who post on forums about Warhammer mainly engage with their hobby by making army lists and debating the merits of various builds - it having been a game that was mainly won or lost the moment the armies were deployed.
Age of Sigmar just doesn’t support that side of the hobby, but it’s no less deep or worthwhile a game because of that. It’s just not going to appeal to a certain kind of player, and that happens to be the kind of player that makes up online communities and tend to be fairly…vociferous…with their opinions.
This GW-endorsed comp for their school league is also pretty decent. It’s very Age of Sigmar, in that rather than assume equal armies, it gives bonuses to the weaker one:
Meh, i don’t understand this “i hate Aos” mumbo jumbo. Don’t like it? Play kings of war or 9th age. 9th age especially seems great, well supported, and lots of people are already into it… To quote Tjub, look at Blood Bowl. Just because GW isn’t endorsing the game anymore it doesn’t mean then there isn’t a thriving community supporting it.
As someone who was absolutely in love with 8th edition, I have to say that I am fully converted to team AoS.
The game is way better in my opinion. Enough is the same that I don’t miss 8th edition. On top of that, they took away all of the degenerate behavior and annoyances of the old engine.
The biggest thing for me would be all of the little sub-rules for moving. It was annoying, it would take forever, you’d always have to worry that there was something that was being missed, and there were always arguments.
It is no longer possible to field nigh unstoppable lords.
It is no longer considered cheesy to field special characters as they too are extremely killable.
AoS is way more action packed and the battling comes much quicker.
Annoying rules that had crappy effects on the game like animosity and stupidity can no longer ruin someone’s day or cost them a game.
No more complex and contradictory rules with idiotic wording whereby you would never know if you were playing right and GW didn’t give a good God damn.
Really the only thing bad about AoS is that you can’t play it as is. You need a comp system. Azyr has filled that gap beautifully and it seems way more balanced than 8th edition ever was. AoS is complex in it’s own right and despite nay-sayers, there is just as much strategy involved as in 8th edition.
That being said, I’ll reiterate that I still love 8th edition. But going back to it would be like going to a previous World of Warcraft expansion. Certain things may be better suited to personal taste, but overall you would be sacrificing all of the major improvements that massively improved gameplay and quality of life issues.
I know many would disagree, and I totally understand their frustration that the game they know and love is no longer being supported. But trust me, take the challenge, play with a good comp system, I guarantee you’ll like it.
Also the LoA list for AoS is awesome! Catapults don’t need line of sight!!! Some knob wants to play Archaeon? You can swat him out of the air like a silly fly…
Novos, you just convinced me to look up the Azyr comp system and give AoS another fair try!
Helblindi
Why thank you! I'm happy for ya! I just know the pain that the AoS haters are feeling because I was there initially. But after getting a few games in and realizing how much quicker and funner it was in addition to all the new crazy possibilities it opened up and all the annoyances it took away, I'm never looking back. My gaming group feels the same way.
It would have been nicer if he could have pointed us towards the thriving online AoS community he likes so much. Still, at least the links in the comments supplied some.
cornixt
there's a few Youtube examples mentioned in the latest warhammer youtuber awards as well, https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MS6SZ3J
but Tyler Emersons list has most of it covered. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ux_Bppx8ISJ5keNdMEv8djk0r8N5SLYDO7Zi7fuJy2k/edit
Warhammer Weekly has become one of my fav shows recently on YTube
I think one thing AoS deserves a lot of credit for is making themed armies more viable. Sure you can field an Undivided chaos army, but the tighter your theme, the more synergy you get from key words as you garner the favour of your patron.
It’s also fixed the allies mechanic and made it easier for experienced players to field new armies by doing so. If you like a High Elf model and want to include it in your games without starting a whole army, it’s easy to do now.
The one thing I really wish they’d done is get more information about the mortal realms out up front. The more I hear the more I like it as a setting, but as someone who likes to build an army around a theme it’s been hard to do with how vague the background has been left. That said, with eight whole realms and countless petty fiefdoms there is far more scope for the narrative gamer to build up a back story than there was in the highly defined world of WFB. I loved the old world as a setting but being able to have my characters carve out a kingdom somewhere other than the Border Princes within the official background is pretty great.
Last but not least, I’ve finally been able to re-base my daemons onto rounds. With the WFB community becoming much more ad-hoc I can use movement trays without getting blasted for “unofficial basing,” whilst I can now use them for 40K without creating issues either.
I bought my first mini today, an Exalted Deathbringer. Going to start off with a small Khorne army to learn to play AoS with, and slowly teach myself how to paint again, if I ever get the time!
Well I played my first game ever of AOS last night. It was fun! I was all ready to just loathe it for not being Warhammer 9th, but I really enjoyed the game that it actually is.
We played a scenario of keeping and holding 3 warpstone meteorites, one of which was to randomly blow up at the top of turn 3.
The warscroll rules are very flavourful and rich. We had an unexpected blast.
The recent upheaveals of the shift from Warhammer Fantasy Battles to Age of Sigmar has left many hobbyists less than enthusiastic, quite understandably. Yet any talk about AoS tends to have fair more than its share of venom, and a positives oasis such as this very thread is as such legitimized for those wanting to discuss the game, background and miniature range in and of itself, without negativity involved.
As someone who have not tried out the game or read the fluff yet, I know I like the minis. The currently released AoS minis look great for their style niche, whether or not that niche is close to your personal preferences. The mortal Khorne cultists e.g. are a vast improvement upon the old Conan Marauders. The new terrain is great, and it seems GW has something peculiar and new in mind for Dwarfs, and hopefully also Elves. Sigmarines are pretty impressive, and bonus points for the archers.
Also, the Stormcast Eternals could make fantastic Custodes in 40k with other heads and some weapon updates.
As someone who have not tried out the game or read the fluff yet, I know I like the minis. The currently released AoS minis look great for their style niche, whether or not that niche is close to your personal preferences. The mortal Khorne cultists e.g. are a vast improvement upon the old Conan Marauders. The new terrain is great, and it seems GW has something peculiar and new in mind for Dwarfs, and hopefully also Elves. Sigmarines are pretty impressive, and bonus points for the archers.
Also, the Stormcast Eternals could make fantastic Custodes in 40k with other heads and some weapon updates.
