[Archive] [AoS] Effectiveness of Legion of Azgorh units

Archive [Archive] Tactics, Strategy & Battle Reports
1

TheHoodedMan:

Hi there,

I played a few games now in AoS and it was rather fun, totally different experience than 9th Age which I like still a lot.
I found that the units are very different from their effectiveness from my point of view. I hope you like to discuss this and share your experiences as well.

Leaders:
I really llke the Drazoath model and also the rules of it. Lots of wounds, flying, decent output in melee and two mortal wounds spells per turn is hard. But for 380 pts you get a lot of other stuff. In my opinion in my 1000 pts games it is not so effective.
In my last game I played a Tauruk (which is very good, mobile and hard hitting) and a daemonsmith and there are still 100 pts left to Drazoath.
The battle standard is wasted points from my point of view sadly. The castellans better especially if he is the leader because he has a good command ability which helps the output of your line troops.<br>Didnt try Shartor but I think Ill play the model as a normal Tauruk, because his special equipment and 1 more life doesnt seem to justify the points increase. Only thing could be if you need a fast army to play him because Bull Centaurs become line troops then.<br><br>Other:<br>The iron demon is nice, but I think it only pays off if you play the warscroll battalion with 2 of them and the special rules. This isn´t possible in a pure Legion army at 1000 pts because the battalion costs already over 800 pts, so you cant fit in 2 line troop choices.
Otherwise its damage output is too unreliable.

I preferred war machines (2 deathshriekers) and more fireglaives instead. Especially enhancing the numbers of the fireglaives to 20 is very effective. Lots of people bring only minimum numbers of line troops and if you can fire 20 shots (or 40 against monsters!) with rend -1 and the ability for double damage this can be really tough.

The bull centaur renders are quite expensive, but 1 unit of them as scorers are nice. They cost more as a Tauruk, have a little less output but more wounds to give and a higher model count for mission objectives.

What are your experiences, especially with the ironsworn and the other war machines?

2

Parish:

Hi there,

I played a few games now in AoS and it was rather fun, totally different experience than 9th Age which I like still a lot.
I found that the units are very different from their effectiveness from my point of view. I hope you like to discuss this and share your experiences as well.

Leaders:
I really llke the Drazoath model and also the rules of it. Lots of wounds, flying, decent output in melee and two mortal wounds spells per turn is hard. But for 380 pts you get a lot of other stuff. In my opinion in my 1000 pts games it is not so effective.
In my last game I played a Tauruk (which is very good, mobile and hard hitting) and a daemonsmith and there are still 100 pts left to Drazoath.
The battle standard is wasted points from my point of view sadly. The castellan`s better especially if he is the leader because he has a good command ability which helps the output of your line troops.
Didn`t try Shar`tor but I think I`ll play the model as a normal Tauruk, because his special equipment and 1 more life doesn`t seem to justify the points increase. Only thing could be if you need a fast army to play him because Bull Centaurs become line troops then.

Other:
The iron demon is nice, but I think it only pays off if you play the warscroll battalion with 2 of them and the special rules. This isn´t possible in a pure Legion army at 1000 pts because the battalion costs already over 800 pts, so you can`t fit in 2 line troop choices.
Otherwise its damage output is too unreliable.

I preferred war machines (2 deathshriekers) and more fireglaives instead. Especially enhancing the numbers of the fireglaives to 20 is very effective. Lots of people bring only minimum numbers of line troops and if you can fire 20 shots (or 40 against monsters!) with rend -1 and the ability for double damage this can be really tough.

The bull centaur renders are quite expensive, but 1 unit of them as scorers are nice. They cost more as a Tauruk, have a little less output but more wounds to give and a higher model count for mission objectives.

What are your experiences, especially with the ironsworn and the other war machines?

TheHoodedMan
So I played several games from 500 pts to 1k.

Leaders:

Daemonsmith:
I only play one for now and he spends the whole game supporting the cannons and buffing my units.
The backline is a safe place for him, and overall he never disapoint me. I never expect him to deal heavy damage, however the blood of ashut + arcane bolt on the same turn can be pretty threatening. Mystic shield on our unit is a basic thing but with shar'tor it is a nice and strong combination.

Shar'tor:
Well, the miniature is awesome, so for the sake of it field it !!
I had the feeling he was over costed compared to his pair the tauruk. However his command ability is a huge plus for me.
The ward save of 6 and mystic shield turn a unit into a massive unpenetrable block that can hold the oponent for several turn. On top of that if you get the crown of command it allows you to cast the ability that prevent your unit from rolling for the bravery test.
He has a heavy hitting potential, I am usually unlucky with my dice roll but I tend to wait for a charge and take the initiative with it to turn a fight into my favor as rend -2 and 3 damages is quite devastating and the swing it brings to the fight makes it really reliable.

Infernal guard Ironsworn:
I only play a unit of 10, I will definitely bump them to 20, they are solid and tough. Mystic shield on them and they start to stay in combat forever and deal quite some damage in the long run as their ability to strike back on their save is pretty horrendous for your opponent :)

Infernal guard fireglaive:
I used to play two units of 10, they were a waste of points, and got wyped quite quickly due to the low bravery. I just merged the two units into one. They turned to be very consistent in tanking. They never deal that much damage though...

K'daai fireborn:
On the paper it's pretty cheap and looks very strong. But they never achieved anything. I only play 3 I think a unit of 6 would be relevant though. They have a very reliable lifespan back up with mystic shield and shar'tor, they are swift and can fly. However they often end up alone far from my other slow unit. They are strong againt no rend enemy units. They never achieved anything in the sens that they always failed their charge so... Another inconvenient is their burning halo, it contrives you to deploy them far from other unit and have to "play on their own". I would love to summon them as it would bring a surprising threat and support on the battlefield.

Magma canon: I won't go into much details, it's pretty cheap, very consistent, and deals quite a lot of damage...

Deathshrieker: I used it to snipe hero, and it turned to be pretty effective. Here again the machine is pretty cheap, and it didn't let me down so far.

Hope it helps !
3

TheHoodedMan:

Thank you, very good comments!

You are right, the fireglaives are in melee not very strong. I put a hero near them for a countercharge and try to give them the combat shock immunity if I cant avoid a charge (sometimes this is possible with the 3" rule).<br><br>I didnt try the magma cannon but 24" range (with a demonsmith) and mortal wounds is pretty good, especially against heroes with mystic shield and in cover.

I dont have ironsworn, sadly. <br>After your comment Ill have a second look on Shar`tor. The damage output is identical to that of a normal Tauruk however (5 Attacks weapon, 4 attacks hooves)

4

ross_lionheart:

Has anyone ever tried to run an army themed around shar’tor and his bull centaur horde as battleline troops? I’ve been contemplating this idea recently with shar’tor and 2 tauruks alongside 2 units of 6 renders…with the remaining points in the army being spent on fireglaves and warmachines to strike from a distance.

5

gcolon:

Hi there,

I played a few games now in AoS and it was rather fun, totally different experience than 9th Age which I like still a lot.
I found that the units are very different from their effectiveness from my point of view. I hope you like to discuss this and share your experiences as well.

Leaders:
I really llke the Drazoath model and also the rules of it. Lots of wounds, flying, decent output in melee and two mortal wounds spells per turn is hard. But for 380 pts you get a lot of other stuff. In my opinion in my 1000 pts games it is not so effective.
In my last game I played a Tauruk (which is very good, mobile and hard hitting) and a daemonsmith and there are still 100 pts left to Drazoath.
The battle standard is wasted points from my point of view sadly. The castellan`s better especially if he is the leader because he has a good command ability which helps the output of your line troops.
Didn`t try Shar`tor but I think I`ll play the model as a normal Tauruk, because his special equipment and 1 more life doesn`t seem to justify the points increase. Only thing could be if you need a fast army to play him because Bull Centaurs become line troops then.

Other:
The iron demon is nice, but I think it only pays off if you play the warscroll battalion with 2 of them and the special rules. This isn´t possible in a pure Legion army at 1000 pts because the battalion costs already over 800 pts, so you can`t fit in 2 line troop choices.
Otherwise its damage output is too unreliable.

I preferred war machines (2 deathshriekers) and more fireglaives instead. Especially enhancing the numbers of the fireglaives to 20 is very effective. Lots of people bring only minimum numbers of line troops and if you can fire 20 shots (or 40 against monsters!) with rend -1 and the ability for double damage this can be really tough.

The bull centaur renders are quite expensive, but 1 unit of them as scorers are nice. They cost more as a Tauruk, have a little less output but more wounds to give and a higher model count for mission objectives.

What are your experiences, especially with the ironsworn and the other war machines?

TheHoodedMan
So I played several games from 500 pts to 1k.

Leaders:

Daemonsmith:
I only play one for now and he spends the whole game supporting the cannons and buffing my units.
The backline is a safe place for him, and overall he never disapoint me. I never expect him to deal heavy damage, however the blood of ashut + arcane bolt on the same turn can be pretty threatening. Mystic shield on our unit is a basic thing but with shar'tor it is a nice and strong combination.

Shar'tor:
Well, the miniature is awesome, so for the sake of it field it !!
I had the feeling he was over costed compared to his pair the tauruk. However his command ability is a huge plus for me.
The ward save of 6 and mystic shield turn a unit into a massive unpenetrable block that can hold the oponent for several turn. On top of that if you get the crown of command it allows you to cast the ability that prevent your unit from rolling for the bravery test.
He has a heavy hitting potential, I am usually unlucky with my dice roll but I tend to wait for a charge and take the initiative with it to turn a fight into my favor as rend -2 and 3 damages is quite devastating and the swing it brings to the fight makes it really reliable.

Infernal guard Ironsworn:
I only play a unit of 10, I will definitely bump them to 20, they are solid and tough. Mystic shield on them and they start to stay in combat forever and deal quite some damage in the long run as their ability to strike back on their save is pretty horrendous for your opponent :)

Infernal guard fireglaive:
I used to play two units of 10, they were a waste of points, and got wyped quite quickly due to the low bravery. I just merged the two units into one. They turned to be very consistent in tanking. They never deal that much damage though...

K'daai fireborn:
On the paper it's pretty cheap and looks very strong. But they never achieved anything. I only play 3 I think a unit of 6 would be relevant though. They have a very reliable lifespan back up with mystic shield and shar'tor, they are swift and can fly. However they often end up alone far from my other slow unit. They are strong againt no rend enemy units. They never achieved anything in the sens that they always failed their charge so... Another inconvenient is their burning halo, it contrives you to deploy them far from other unit and have to "play on their own". I would love to summon them as it would bring a surprising threat and support on the battlefield.

Magma canon: I won't go into much details, it's pretty cheap, very consistent, and deals quite a lot of damage...

Deathshrieker: I used it to snipe hero, and it turned to be pretty effective. Here again the machine is pretty cheap, and it didn't let me down so far.

Hope it helps !


Parish
Just a quick note, if you're playing pitched battle, then Shar'tor can have no items (unless you're house-ruling it), the rule is in the introduction to the items section of the General's Handbook (unique characters can't have items).
6

Kaleb Daark:

Hi Hoodedman, I’d like to add some of my musings, and I have to say, our faction is just awesome - nothing I’m going to say is gospel, just my own findings and musings, which I hope can go some way to helping us broaden our understanding of our Legion :slight_smile:

The hero’s even Drazoath are all nothing to write home about compared to some of the other factions challenge monsters.  The star of my show is always the Taur’uk,  he makes the centaurs shine.  Bull centaurs need to get that charge off, then with a Taur’uk they become wrecking balls as their hooves suddenly deal d3 wounds.  That said, both these guys always get reduced to one wound and survive till the end of the game.  The only time it didn’t was when Drazoath was torn into Khorne’s realm after a fluke 6 on a Mighty Lord of Khorne’s axe!

With the magma cannon I see the full joy of the Daemonsmith, as it’s range increases to 24".  Deathshriekers are also good as they’re basically daemonic heat seeking missiles - great for sniping out characters as they don’t need to have line of sight, which is what I use them for.  Khorne bloodbound armies really hate them as bloodpriests and bloodsecrators can be sniped off very early if the dice gods are in your favour.

Castellan and BSB stack together quite nicely.  So the castellan as you know will give you +1 to wound rolls with his martial contempt ability.  If he has the lord of war trait then he can give the +1 to hit as well.

The BSB will give you the joy of rerolling wounds on any order or Destruction unit.  I never get him into hero to hero combat as that’s not what either of them are about, they’re there to make the rest of the troops tow the line.  I run him and the BSB behind my fireglaive line, with ironsworn in front of the fireglaives.  Some people are a bit meh about spite shields, but anything that can do free wounds can’t be sniffed at really.

So the castellan, if your general, could have nominated an enemy unit under martial contempt and both ironsworn and fireglaives get the +1 to wound on them, that and the Lord of War giving +1 to hit helps no end.   In the larger games the blackshard warhost battallion gives them re rolls on hit rolls of 1.

Daemonsmith is best near his warmachines I have found, which is where the iron daemon comes in as you can haul the warmachines around.

Iron daemons are great as funnels to force opponents to go a certain way.

I have to say that I never really move my artillery pieces.  I try and make sure that I can cover two thirds of the board with their range.

The way I see it is that if they’re at the back of a 4x4 table then first off your army is outside of their minimum range ( not including magma cannon)

An enemy will have to advance his heroes with his troops if they want their buffs, for tricksy hiding heros then there’s always the daemonic heatseekers known as Deathshriekers - I never leave home without them for this very reason.  Hellcannons are another one, albeit a bit pricey on the points front if you play matched play. However a warmachine that can fight its own battles is not to be sniffed at, so in that respect good value.  I am waiting on FW to hopefully come back with a ruling on whether they have LoA keyword as well as they were part of the original Tamurkhan book.  They have already ruled that the hobgoblins have the CHAOS keyword in addition to any others.

Be aware that until FW give us a battletome or some such new writing, we have the luxury (apart from hellcannon) that our crew and machine are one profile… think about that. :slight_smile:

Now your daemonsmith has effectively a six inch bubble to play with and still benefit from his cover save, with him in the centre. With a magma cannon at the front it has effectively a 30" reach from your board edge, and most of the time your opponent will be moving into that field of fire by end of turn 1.

Especially if they’ve played you before, as they know how easily you can turn them into sieves if they hand around too long.  Dreadquakes are good for that as they will stop a unit from running if they take a single casualty - very handy for large blobs where you just need them to behave and stand still while you shoot them up.

I generally use my bull centaurs to smash those annoying outflanky things like spider riders and such like, or small units which I’m confident I can smash in a turn.  The Taur’uk I’ve had a lot of fun with but he nearly always get smashed down to a wound!

Kdaai.  Like bull centaurs they’re more fragile, but they’re annoying as hell.  With their 3+ save to anything without rend and fly, they’re a great skirmish and warmachine hunting unit. Their greatest party trick is the 3" reach.  fly them in 3" away, they can still hit, and best of all at the end of every combat phase the enemy unit takes a mortal wound for free if its still within 3.  I have two units of three, but I’d like another two.

Let the magma cannons worry about the close and mid range and the rockets and mortar worry about the stuff he’s got sitting around at the back.  Look at the hauled carriage rule as the opportunity to get the warmachines to do a runner if things get a bit too hot for them.

Just remember that this army’s hero’s are no hero’s!  they’re pretty rubbish at standing on their own two feet compared to  some of the other faction’s slaughter machines, but they shine when the army works as one.

For General’s handbook chaos traits and abilities If choosing I always go for Crown of Command and Lord of War because I’d rather make my other units strong to make the army strong rather than one character.

Drazoath is a very effective if not fragile magnet, however with mystic shield on him he can be very stubborn to take down.  His sceptre always works well for me.  Again, his signature spell is very good at taking out annoying buffing characters that opponents insist on bringing to ruin your fun.

Shartor, like the Taur’uk is best when moved last, I find the bull centaurs activated first work best for me as then the enemy is locked or semi locked in combat before these dudes pile in and wreck face.  Also don’t underestimate Shartor’s mask - I practically had a table flip from a dark elf player when I got that one off (battle report to follow) - lets just say ten inch range and 75% 4+'s on a big horde (2 units of 30) of witch elves!

Again Kdaai make great support to these units as they can fly over them  to behind an enemy that you’re attacking, just out of charge range and then in to the 3" window - and you bugger their chance of running away through the easiest possible route - directly backwards.

The Legion is an army where you need to stand back and focus on all of it at once, when you get this right, it’s a massive rockface that the opponent must smash against.  Everything about this army is geared to slowing opponents down so that you can break them at a distance efficiently.   I let the fireglaives and ironsworn worry about the close up stuff, and the hellshriekers worry about getting rid of hero’s and tricksy types.

Also remember that your ironsworn’s spite shields are active against ANY wounds, so that includes getting shot at not just melee.

Also you have great tactical flexibility, remember unlike old fantasy you don’t have to ‘close the door’, you can kite a big horde, working in your favour.

I never play for a double turn, but find the army works well when played in a manner to expect your opponent to double turn.

For supreme anoyance in a large game with multiple heroes sit a daemonsmith on a magewrath throne deployed behind war machine cover!

I hope this has helped and given you some food for thought. :slight_smile:

7

Roark:

That’s a fantastic writeup, Kaleb. Thanks heaps (belatedly) for taking the time to do it.

Where and when was the ruling made on “hobgrots” having the Chaos keyword? To be honest, I’m surprised that the community hasn’t had a tickertape parade about this…

Also, the BSB seems very meh to be. I just can’t see why I would want to spent the points on him instead of… another Rocket crew or just 10 more Ironsworn! I dunno…

8

Roark:

Thanks TheHoodedMan and others too! How rude of me…

9

Black_Fortress_Immortal:

Agree with all of the above.

Small point games in AoS - maximize foot troops and grab some K’daai. Make sure mystic shield is up on some Ironsworn at all times. Naptha bombs are your friend.

Big games in AoS - protect your artillery and make sure you run your line up to objectives. Kill fast movers and snipe key heroes. You do the majority of your damage during the shooting phases, so you’re limited in output - so make your shots COUNT on KEY units that pose the greatest threat to winning the game or killing your objective-grabbers.