Ikit:
Here’s a question about, maybe, my next best friend.
What is intended by “killed outright after been successfully wounded”.
a) Works as “Killing blow” on flammable models.
b) Do “Multiple Wounds (infinite)” to flammable models if not saved.
I’ve read on other forums people who think it just remove the model with no save of any kind but I’m sure it’s not the case.
So it depends on when a model is considered to be wounded. When he must try to save or when he lose a wound.
Since english is not my primary language, I wanted the opinion of english speaking people.
Thank you!
Yodrin:
Kills after save and or ward save
Samanos:
Kills after save and or ward save
Yodrin
I agree. the text does not say ignores saves of any kind, it just dies if its flammable regardless of the number of wounds it has, but it gets its saves normally (plus can you imagine if the hammer did that for only the 35 points it costs? we would be banned from all tournaments! :o)
Geist:
I dont mean to be rude or anything but how can anyone read the hammer for anything other than what it says?
If your flammable and take a wound from the hammer your dead. Does not say ignore armour or ward, does not say KB or HKB or multi wound, just removed from play. Am I just over thinking the entire process or is it really that hard to understand? For me its black and white, if your flammable and you take a wound you die.
cornixt:
I guess it is because saves are done after wounds, some people assume you stop after rolling for wounds.
In Warhammer, armour saves would make much more sense before rolling to wound, but it means more dice passing.
Ikit:
I dont mean to be rude or anything but how can anyone read the hammer for anything other than what it says?
If your flammable and take a wound from the hammer your dead. Does not say ignore armour or ward, does not say KB or HKB or multi wound, just removed from play. Am I just over thinking the entire process or is it really that hard to understand? For me its black and white, if your flammable and you take a wound you die.
Geist
No offense taken, I'll just write you the definition of "Killing blow" (the reason why I thought it may be different from my first lecture) : If a model with the Killing Blow special rule rolls a 6 to wound in close combat, he automatically slays his opponent - regardless of the number of wounds on the victim's profile. Armour saves cannot be taken against a Killing Blow. (...) (p.72 small brb).
The formulation : "is slain outright" and "automatically slays his opponent" are synonymes. The difference, well noted by everybody who answered my question, is on the "rolls a 6 to wound" and "is wounded".
A model is then considered "wounded" if he fails all his saves and not when the Str beat the Toughness. (The deep sense of my question).
Thank you for your answers by the way, much appreciate.
Jossy:
I guess it is because saves are done after wounds, some people assume you stop after rolling for wounds.
In Warhammer, armour saves would make much more sense before rolling to wound, but it means more dice passing.
cornixt
You only suffer a wound if you don't save it.
Marduk:
I assume it works just as Heroic Killing Blow against flammable models.
furrie:
What is intended by "killed outright after been successfully wounded".
Ikit
successfully is the keyword here, it means the model needs to take atleast one unsaved wound and as such the model is successfully wounded.
Gunnerson:
I dont mean to be rude or anything but how can anyone read the hammer for anything other than what it says?
If your flammable and take a wound from the hammer your dead. Does not say ignore armour or ward, does not say KB or HKB or multi wound, just removed from play. Am I just over thinking the entire process or is it really that hard to understand? For me its black and white, if your flammable and you take a wound you die.
Geist
I might also suggest the confusion comes from english being a second language. Dunno what language(s) the book is printed in but that could certinly cause confusion and misintrupritation.
Hashut’s Blessing:
Indeed - being a second language, it makes sense it could be confusing.
But to be successfully wounded, you must get past all saves (Armour, Ward and Regeneration) - ergo, you take saves, then lose all wounds if you fail to stop even one of the incoming wounds.
tangoraven:
I assume it works just as Heroic Killing Blow against flammable models.
Marduk
It's slightly different to Heroic KB. In HKB, a model is successfully killed outright on rolls to wound of 6 and no armour saves are allow.
The Blackhammer kills on any successful rolls to wound and does not ignore armour saves. I think overall, based on S6 hits which gives -3 armour modifiers, the Blackhammer is better than regular HKB, the only negative is that you need to cast Ashstorm on the unit as normal flamable units are few and far in between.
KramDratta:
Forgeworld’s reply can be found here.
I am hoping that they add them to the latest FAQ shortly, as that will clear up the last few issues (and fix the Bull Centaurs/spears problem).