Schlanger:
How does it work? Is it so that BB shooting at a chariot or monster hit it only once on 4+? It seems like it is like that, but it doesn’t make sense!
Obsidian:
Yes, exactly like that. If I remember correctly in the old rules they could shoot individually but not anymore.
Probably because in Ravening Hordes they saved space and only gave a basic run through of the rules.
Thommy H:
The old rules were the same. Each model is hit on a 4+, and takes one hit of the appropriate Strength. The old chariot rules might have worked differently back then (I have a feeling you could target individual parts), but it doesn’t work that way now.
So, if you hit something with US 2 or more with a blunderbuss, it will still do one wound. That’s just how they work: they’re most effective against normal infantry models. Some people think it doesn’t make sense, but I think it’s just a feature of the rules. They’re not for killing monsters - they’re for disposing of masses of little blighters.
Xander:
That’s one of the weaknesses of them, and it’s a good tactic for taking them down.
cornixt:
In 4th/5th edition they ALSO had concentrate fire rules, where you got a shot for each model in the front rank and it dealth with things like that. Now it is as nonsensical as with all the other template rules, you only get a single potential hit on a model with a massive base.
EDIT: Added the ALSO
Thommy H:
While they did have some rules for concentrated fire, the main rules were almost exactly as they are now.
Willmark:
Blunderbusses you say… hmmmm???
Auretious Taak:
I don't get where this reasoning comes from. You flame a giant and there is a massive amount of him to effect. It's the same with blunderbusses, you are shooting a wall of lead and rocks and fun fun at him. It is not a massive wall and hits him like a wave which he strides through. It might slow him down a bit, but it might also go straight through his legs and only nick hima bit so you miss on that 4+ and there's some reasoning for you - that or he jumps up and you all miss. It can be rationaled in several ways but then people point out individual arrow shots all hit and wound. The simple fact is: whilst we have some units that are the best in the game (un-updated fast cavalry with 4+ saves FTW!) we also have units that can be the worst in the game - Blunderbusses on Giants for example. We can complain about it all we want but it won't take away from the futility of the arguement and the time we could have spent gaming!
In 4th/5th edition they ALSO had concentrate fire rules, where you got a shot for each model in the front rank and it dealth with things like that. Now it is as nonsensical as with all the other template rules, you only get a single potential hit on a model with a massive base.
cornixt
Cheers,
Auretious Taak.
cornixt:
My reasoning is that something the size of 8 men takes a single hit, whereas 8 men take 8 hits. Isn’t that nonsensical? I’m not complaining about blunderbusses, but templates in general.
minty:
single hit unfortunatly…
Thommy H:
My reasoning is that something the size of 8 men takes a single hit, whereas 8 men take 8 hits. Isn't that nonsensical? I'm not complaining about blunderbusses, but templates in general.Yep, you're right, Cornixt - the rules are what they are, but the fact is that (in theory) the same amount of lead is being flung through the air and there's no reason it shouldn't distribute the same amount of force over the same area, regardless of how many creatures are in that area.
cornixt
An ideal solution would be to base it on Unit Strength.
That said, as I mentioned before, I do think this situation is a valid drawback for what are potentially very powerful rules. It doesn't make perfect sense, but it is quite an interesting limitation.
cornixt:
Maybe there is something already written about this very topic to be published in the next edition of WoH…
kk2k2:
I think the issue is that NORMAL templates (barring Breath Weapons) have d3 or d6 wounds, but Blunderbusses don’t.
If Blunderbusses did d3 wounds to affected models, I think that would be about right.
Hashut’s Blessing:
I’d like to point out, yet again, this thread has been started many, many ties. Please do a quick search in future.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
That said, as I mentioned before, I do think this situation is a valid drawback for what are potentially very powerful rules. It doesn't make perfect sense, but it is quite an interesting limitation.Can we just cheat? Chances are that our opponent doesn't know this! ;)
thommy h
Thommy H:
Know what? Warhammer isn’t a game in which if it doesn’t say you can’t do something, you can - all the rules tell you exactly what you can do and anything else isn’t allowed. So there’s no way to fudge this: it doesn’t say you do damage based on Unit Strength or give any kind of advantage for firing against monsters or chariots, so none such exists.
But yes, you can just lie and pretend it does say something if you really want to. Good luck when your opponent wants to see the rules to check for themselves though!
Baggronor:
Also, don’t forget when you stand and shoot, its a 12" volley straight forward as normal, so theres nothing stopping you positioning the unit so you might ‘accidentally’ catch another enemy unit in the fire zone. They are potentially so powerful that 1 wound per hit is about right I think.
Willmark:
Maybe there is something already written about this very topic to be published in the next edition of WoH...*walks away whistling.....*
cornixt