greatcrusade08:
ive read a few threads here, which suggest fireborn are better than centaurs.
But i just cant see it…
bull centaurs are 15pts cheaper taken stock, are faster, have the same number of attacks but more wounds, extra toughness with a better armour save.
plus they can be upgraded with great weapons, extra hand weapons, shields etc.
i cant see a single thing that suggests fireborn are ‘better’ in any way (auto hit flaming attacks notwithstanding)
can anyone shed any light on this?
whilst we are discussing the two units, why not throw in some info on the best way to run each unit? numbers, equipment etc.
also as a further question, the tamurkhan rulebook says the centaurs only have heavy armour, but the army builder program shows them to have a 3+ armour save (goes to 2+ with shield), can anyone explain this for me please?
thanks chaps
Gunnerson:
ive read a few threads here, which suggest fireborn are better than centaurs.
But i just cant see it...
bull centaurs are 15pts cheaper taken stock, are faster, have the same number of attacks but more wounds, extra toughness with a better armour save.
plus they can be upgraded with great weapons, extra hand weapons, shields etc.
i cant see a single thing that suggests fireborn are 'better' in any way (auto hit flaming attacks notwithstanding)
can anyone shed any light on this?
whilst we are discussing the two units, why not throw in some info on the best way to run each unit? numbers, equipment etc.
also as a further question, the tamurkhan rulebook says the centaurs only have heavy armour, but the army builder program shows them to have a 3+ armour save (goes to 2+ with shield), can anyone explain this for me please?
thanks chaps
greatcrusade08
I like the Centaurs better. In 2 groups of 3 with great weapons for Chaff killing, warmachine hunting , redirectors and so on. I have considered a block of 8 with Musician Standard and Tar'uk x2. The problem with them is that 2 attacks means those attacks MUST kill things. Dont try and take on a Ranked unit with them in the front, head on unsupported ever. Use them always as suport units and run the them defensively with great weapons.
Bolg:
also as a further question, the tamurkhan rulebook says the centaurs only have heavy armour, but the army builder program shows them to have a 3+ armour save (goes to 2+ with shield), can anyone explain this for me please?
thanks chaps
greatcrusade08
besides heavy armour (5+ save) , they have Scaly skin 5+
I love my centaurs. Its like my most fav unit in the book. they are not uber good, definitely not. but I like them, the are very fast and flexible.
I only ever use them with great weapons, and almost always in a unit of 6. I've tries bringing 2 units, 6 and 3 and that is quite good to.
Why I love Centaurs over Fireborn, well for one, I loved them under the ravening hordes book already o they had a head start. but on a tactical point of view. they can take a musician (and a banner), looks like a small difference but in a fast paced tournament having a musician or not is crucial, A quick reform gets you were you need to go (after a overrun for example) faster. (and the banner gives interesting boostable options as well (swiftness or the 1x reroll LD test come to mind).
M7 is great next to a mainly M3/M4 list. (and they also give you the option to bring a Taur'ruk. should be an interesting option)
Both units can be handled by any experienced opponent, but i'm not a huge fan of the Ttest + instability and option to get pinned by dragon armour/helmet dude on a (flying)horsy.
Having said all that: I've heard some good storys of a unit of 8 Fireborn (I've only tried 6) and I'm looking forward in sculpting 2 more and having a goo at that.
(and after that I want to try a horde of centaurs once, just because I have the models)
greatcrusade08:
so heavy armour stacks with scaly skin to give a 3+, becuase thats very cool 
does that mean a taur’uk can have a 2+ just by taking blackshard armour?
the toughness and armour save sways it for me, but the price of 3 makes me want to cry…
i like the idea of great weapons, but if your chasing down chaff or killing war macine crew wouldnt a second hand weapon be for more attacks?
Ceann Fine:
Yes that gives a taur’uk a 2+, the problem with not getting them great weapons is you have two attacks at strength 4 which won’t do much.
Geist:
Having just recently played with a large brick of bulls with and with out a taruk. I can offer the following feed back.
If the ruling from forge world goes through and spears are treated as cav weapons (IE +1st on charge), then that will make them worth taking with spear and shield.
As they stand right this second, small blocks of 3 are useful but hard to use as you will be tempted to toss them into a fight that you will suddenly realize they have no chance of winning.
A big brick of 8 with banner of 1 rerolled leadership check is massive for them.
Great weapons is best as the base st is just suck.
Taurk is stupid costly but ups the effectness of the unit by crap ton. Current build that I suggest is dragon bane gem, ap sword and crown of command, give him blackshard armour and shield. Gives him a 1+ save and decent attacks. But main effect is he makes it so a unit of bulls can go hold up a moderate unit. Can’t play with anything big, but can handle most stock infantry. Again thats most, dont run them into a block of warriors of nurgle and be anything but surpised that they died. Unless those nurlge dudes only have hand weapon and shield then your chances of winning are slim.
greatcrusade08:
bull centaurs are monstrous beasts, i had a flick through the rulebook, but it doesnt seem they get the same support attacks as monstrous infantry.
that means second row only get a single attack each right?, which is a
in terms of cost i probably wouldnt want to run more than 6, but how would the command work, if we took all 3 the taur’uk would be hanging in the back.
would it be a good idea to forgo the unit boss and just have musician and banner instead? let the taur’uk do challenges?
Gunnerson:
bull centaurs are monstrous beasts, i had a flick through the rulebook, but it doesnt seem they get the same support attacks as monstrous infantry.
that means second row only get a single attack each right?, which is a
in terms of cost i probably wouldnt want to run more than 6, but how would the command work, if we took all 3 the taur'uk would be hanging in the back.
would it be a good idea to forgo the unit boss and just have musician and banner instead? let the taur'uk do challenges?
greatcrusade08
Skip the unit champ. Most players wont be challengeing the Tar'uk which is fine by us. We want him eating RnF and using the rest of the unit as a delivery system. If a challenge is issued accept, the Tar'uk is no slouch and if geared correctly can take a beating.
Geist:
Page 2 of the FAQ MB (monstrous beast) may make up to 3 supporting attacks.
rpitts2004:
Fireborn have a 4+ ward save and re-roll wounds on them, I have had a good experience with fireborn and always work for me
Da Crusha:
I prefer fireborne but honestly I haven’t played many games with the Bull Centaurs. in my experience BCs are only worth bringing because the Tauruk can’t be brought without them and the Tauruk can be a nice buff to the army.
Goltor Lintrepide:
To answer the first question : S5, I4, Unbreakable, Fear, Flamming Attacks and Blazing Body. That’s what make them worth it, good damage output and resilient enough.
Unleash them in a rank and file unit and they will eat it alive.
Grimbold Blackhammer:
It isn’t great damage output. But it is CONSISTENT damage output. And that’s worth a lot on it’s own.
adolrak:
I have never played fireborn, and really only have about 15-20 experiences with my bulls, but i find them to be incredibly effective. I run them HW/SH 5 strong with a taur’uk. And I basically agree with the whole bulls being a taur’uk delivery system. Ive ran him with ogre blade, charmed shield and DB Gem or ironcurse, both work very well for me. Ive also done GW, dragon helm and crown of command, basically does the same trick with an extra perk. I almost always try and give the unit the war banner. As a unit that doesnt contribute much combat res, even if thrown into a flank like they are supposed to that extra point has meant a lot in many fights for them.
Thats just my 2 cents tho. I can see 6 with GW doing the same job for cheaper as my taur’uk block, I just like having the str 7 beast there to make challangers nervous and squashing bsb’s and wizards.
gashnag:
I hate to be one who cannot pick but I have had good shows with both. In a tournament I had a unit of fireborn charge a unit of dwarf hammerers with rune lord and bsb when they got in combat the unit had been reduced to 30 by 2 castings of flames of azgoth after the first round of combat my 8 fireborn took out 18 hammerers and lost 4 wounds. On the other hand I have had a unit of 5 bulls w/ hero armed w/ GW take out an Arachnarok Spider in a single round of combat then change a horde of savage orcs in the rear and due to the crown of command hold them there till I could charge with my main block though by the time they got there the horde was cut in half and their general was slain.
Geist:
Flames of Azgoth does not stack. It also can not be cast into combat, direct damage can be cast from combat if the target itself is not in combat.
I want to like fireborn but the break down check is what makes me worriesome about using them.
gashnag:
Flames of Azgoth does not stack. It also can not be cast into combat, direct damage can be cast from combat if the target itself is not in combat.
I want to like fireborn but the break down check is what makes me worriesome about using them.
Geist
I never said that I cast it into combat what I said was after hitting the unit with it twice the unit was reduced to 30 before the fireborn charged
rubencm81:
Well, it depends.
Fireborn: You have to take 6 to absorb thorse chaff and T test wounds while they are getting close to the enemy. Once they are there, remember it is just 2 attacks, 2 wounds, 4+ ward save. It is not really too much if you think about it.
Imagine a unit of 6. First turn you get 1 wound from archers/magic. 2 round, you pass the test ( or not). Or your oponent has Shadows lore and you have -1d3T. You lose 2 wounds. Now without combat, you have lost 25% of your wounds! Then, ok, you go into combat…or you face the stupid dragonbane gem guy in horse or dragonhelm.
I would prefer 3 centaurs as distraction. 120p, looks badass and for sure the enemy is gonna look for them.
Grimbold Blackhammer:
Well, it depends.
Fireborn: You have to take 6 to absorb thorse chaff and T test wounds while they are getting close to the enemy. Once they are there, remember it is just 2 attacks, 2 wounds, 4+ ward save. It is not really too much if you think about it.
rubencm81
Plus burning everyone is base-to-base contact plus a Stomp attack and almost everyone is rerolling to wound them. That's a lot!