[Archive] Chaos Dwarf Army Book by Thommy H

Archive [Archive] Rules Development
21

tjub:

HELLSHRIEK (Lore Attribute)
Any enemy unit that suffers any Wounds from a Lore of Hashut spell must take a Panic test regardless of the number of casualties caused. Friendly units with the Slaves special rule that are the target of any Lore of Hashut spell must also take a Panic test.
5. BULLROAR Cast on 13+
The Sorcerer Lord unleashes a furious bellow that reverberates through the Realm of Chaos like an apocalyptic Dirge of Hashut. All that hear the sound are filled with the fear of Hashut and his fiery wrath.
Bullroar is an augment spell cast on the Sorcerer Lord himself. Until the beginning of the caster�?Ts next Magic phase, all friendly units from Warhammer: Chaos Dwarfs within 18�?� of the caster automatically pass all Panic tests they are required to take. The Sorcerer Lord can choose to emit a louder and more powerful version of this spell that affects all friendly units within 24�?�. If he does so, the casting value is increased to 18+.
How do this work for units with the slave rule?
22

JMR:

The spell is cast on the Sorcerer Lord himself, so the Slaves are not the target of a Lore of Hashut spell, thus no Panic test is taken in the first place.

23

tjub:

The spell is cast on the Sorcerer Lord himself, so the Slaves are not the target of a Lore of Hashut spell, thus no Panic test is taken in the first place.

JMR
Ah, of course! :hat off
24

GDD:

I’ve had a good look through the book by now, and I’m in love.
I think some of the things in here might be a little too good, but its difficult to tell
how well it would actually synergize with each other. I haven’t actually made a list yet, so don’t know how expensive stuff is.

Hobgoblins with 1-LD but no animosity is fantastic, since characters can join slaves. And they can have spears…
My core would probably be made entirely out of these guys.

Immortals are insanely good. I think they are a little cheap for what they can do, although they are only movement 3.

I dislike my wizards suddenly being so easy to kill, but I love all the magic buffing units in the book generally.
The deamon binder special rule is a great addition.
I would have liked the lore of hashut to have more debuffing spells rather than so much damage dealing,
but I like that the damage spells had variety with how they were executed.

That being said I like the addition of combat lords…

I love the elite Bull Centaurs, in rare, and wolf riders in special. Gives more movement to the army.

I would have liked one of the war machines to be a little bit more elite.

Defense against flaming attacks seems like it could be very good against the army…

In conclusion I would sell all my vanilla dwarfs,and go full CD immediately, if this book was accepted at tournaments.
(God damn it GW buy Russian Alternative, and make this a proper army book…)
Fantastic work. I really really like it.

25

JMR:

Another fix for you, Thommy: In the army list section, all Chaos Dwarf Crew (warmachines) have Toughness 3 instead of 4.

The Army Builder file is nearly done. I’m working through the rare choices atm.

26

Thommy H:

Wow, thanks for the kind words, GDD! I’m really pleased you like the book. If you use it any games, let me know how it works out - especially with regard to the Immortals, since you’re the second person to say they look a little good for their points.

JMR: I’m going to comb through the book and fix all those typos ASAP! Thanks again!

27

GDD:

If you use it any games, let me know how it works out - especially with regard to the Immortals, since you're the second person to say they look a little good for their points.

Thommy H
I read Shieldwall the same as "gromnil shieldwall" for some reason.

When looking at Ironbreakers, Hammerers, and Chaos Warriors,
and all their special rules, in comparison to what the Immortals can do..

If Chaos Warriors are supposed to be unique across all armies for how good they are,
then Immortals might need to go up a point.
Immortals are undisputedly better than Hammerers and Ironbreakers in my book,
but they are the same cost.
This is what makes me think GW wants to keep WoC as this incredible core choice.
(Ignoring the core choices they are competing with in their book, they are ridiculously good alone.)

Dwarfs have their elite anvil (Ironbreakers) and their elite "lord bunker hammer" (Hammerers).
Your book has Immortals, being one elite unit that has to choose its role for the game.
I guess you could get away with having them at the same cost in special, but I think they still are a bit cheap.
If you make them more expensive, I would not do so by more than one point.

That said I think WoC are only justified by how good they are by the fact that they
are competing for points against awesome chariots.
28

Thommy H:

Yeah, as I said, the cost is based on Hammerers, whose stats are the same. I think Shieldwall complicates things a bit because while Hammerers have it, they never get to use it because of their great weapons. If you give Immortals great weapons, they’re costed about right I think, but they’re better in most other circumstances.

So…maybe 15 points base but great weapons reduced to 1 point? I don’t know. I don’t feel that strongly about it, but 17 points is a lot for a Hammerer with Hatred and an extra pip of armour save!

29

GDD:

That’s true. I personally would never use great weapons on these guys.

I would go with ensorcelled hand weapons, and just put a razor standard on it if I was facing high armor.

5+ parry when charged, 3+ armor,stubborn and hatred, with S5, 2 attacks. It’s incredible.

Only downside is that dwarfs are slow to move, and hit.

30

Thommy H:

Okay, three options I’m toying with:

  • Raise them to 15 pts/model, all options remain the same.
  • Leave base points the same but raise ensorcelled weapons to 3 pts/model.


At the moment the third one seems the most elegant. I think that makes them the correct price both with and without shields.

31

JMR:

I agree that Immortals are fine with a GW. Like I said earlier, for Hammerers, the GW is a bit of a burden.

For Immortals, Ensorcelled weapons + shields + the special rules makes the unit too good at everything. Being good at everything is worth something too. I guess increasing Ensorcelled weapons by a point would be the best option.

The AB file is really nearly done now. I forgot that I had to do Magic Items, so still a bit more work to do.

I’m looking forward to useing an Iron Daemon, by the way.

Also, since this hasn’t been mentioned yet; good job on the photographs! You’ve been creative :slight_smile:

Edit: Stop editing your post while I type a reply :cheers

Option 2 and 3 would usually result in the same for me. If I don’t take a GW, I’d always take a shield. If I take a shield, I’m very very likely to want to go to St5.

Raising Ensorcelled weapons to 3 points makes regular weapon+shield more attractive, but I’d still pick the Ensorcelled weapons most of the time. At 2 points it’s a no-brainer.

32

Thommy H:

That’s why the shield increase seems best to me - and even if you don’t take ensorcelled weapons, you still get hit by an increase. 16 points with regular hand weapons and shields seems about right. It makes them 2 points more than Ironbreakers, who have 1 less Attack and no Hatred or Stubborn, but do get +1 Leadership and a better version of shieldwall.

With great weapons, they likewise work out at 2 points more than Hammerers, again with the bonus of Hatred and an extra pip of save. Kingsbuard and Resolute are probably worth a point combined, so that works for me.

But, like you say, ensorcelled weapons with shields are where they’re best, and that’s when the points tax hits hardest - 18 points per model is hardly a no-brainer, no matter how good they are at everything!

33

JMR:

Page 65: magic item “Chalice of Darknes” should be "Chalice of Darkness"

Edit: Army Builder file is done!

I can’t seem to add it as an attachment to this post however…

34

Thommy H:

Might be too big? Thanks for your help with the typos and stuff, JMR - I’ll try to get a new version uploaded to Issuu tomorrow.

35

JMR:

Nah, it’s a tiny file. The file type isn’t allowed as an attachment.

It can be downloaded here.

That doesn’t keep the file up forever, though. If anyone has a suggestion for a more permanent solution - I’m all ears.

This is for Army Builder version 2.2c only.

Special Characters are not done.

If you spot any mistakes, please let me know.

36

GDD:

I agree on the reasoning behind shield points increase,

and I would still spend my special allowance to field 30, even at 18 p per model! Probably :stuck_out_tongue:

They would be a pain to get rid of anyway. And I would be likely to field a horde with 50 shield/spear hobgoblins in my core,

so now I have two annoying “tarpits/anvils” to get rid of. And they both kill you.

37

JMR:

Okay, with the Immortals only just dealt with, I’d like to throw up the Magma Cannon for review.

I appreciate that it’s arguably too good for it’s points in Tamurkhan, but isn’t it a bit hopeless as is it is in your book right now? I think it’s exactly the same as the Flame Cannon from the old Dwarf book, which was considered to be a useless option.
Not being able to place the flame template at a distance means you can hardly get any shots in, if any.

Maybe add the option for a ranged shot, just like the current Dwarf Flame Cannon?

38

GDD:

Okay, with the Immortals only just dealt with, I'd like to throw up the Magma Cannon for review.

Maybe add the option for a ranged shot, just like the current Dwarf Flame Cannon?

JMR
I second this. As I pointed out earlier I would have liked a more elite war machine, even if it meant a good chunk of more points.
As for now I would never pick the magmacannon in this book.
The "fire dwarfs" at least boast having the best "fire cannon" in Tamurkhan.

I still like this book better of corse. It's just that the Irondeamon is the best piece of "dwarven engineering example" in the book.

I like the increased focus on magic, and the priests/cast system "theme" though.
The Altar of Hashut with a Pyrophant is the coolest unit in the book for me. That is sort of my substitute for a elite war machine.
39

tjub:

@TommyH: When you update the book, can you post a list of the updates/page here? Since Im an ever beaver I just got it printed and won’t have to redo the whole thing… :slight_smile:

40

JMR:

What base size do you feel should be used for an Altar of Hashut, Thommy? Your old base size chart gives a size of 100x150. Is that still the size to go with in it’s new incarnation?