Quark express?.. GW is a toy company… and the best customer is not “the customer you already have” for a toy company… its the customer you’re gonna have… because unlike us… most kids grow up… GW is making no money from us… and stand to make no money from us… GW also does not make any money from producing rules… they are breaking even at best… and thats only after a book has been on the shelf for years…
GW makes toys… GW sells toys… GW makes money by selling toys… not by selling rules… or complicated software…
But it’s true, they make the money on the miniatures. Which is why they love their space marines. All the same product supplies 50% of the 40k players.
Metro brings up an intresting point. I included Quark by way of example as to a company that failed to listen to its customers and paid for it.
GW doesnt think things out very well. How many 12 year olds have GWs ever increasing prices? Not many. They don’t advertise or retain customers well because of being directed to kids. Now take this a step futher I have two kids. Am I going to he predisposed to getting them into GWs various games? And spend massive amounts of money on an army (any army) that might get dropped. I only have to get burned once to be wary in the future.
I’m glad you see my point regarding conversions and army contruction there Grim. GW only seems to think in army terms. All the while there I’d demand for an army and the means to meet that demand.
A strong competitor would force GW to, gheez listen to the customers that pay the bills?
Willmark
Rackham had Chaos Dwarfs in their Confrontation game (the Dwarfs of Mid-Nor) and that didn't seem to do much to motivate GW.
My gut feeling is that IF this rumour is true and there is a CD unit in the mortal Chaos book it is probably the death knell for WA:CD unless those new CD miniatures that they will presumably release to support the entry in the army book (otherwise why would it be there?) sell phenomenally well.
It's still a rumour at this stage though. We'll just wait and see...
I dont think we shouldcomplain. A new unit is more that Ive expected all those years. Also, giving us a unit would force them to give us some background who would be welcomed to settled some queistions. Lets hope. At least we just have to wait for the new HoC to be sure.
A strong competitor would force GW to, gheez listen to the customers that pay the bills?
Willmark
Rackham had Chaos Dwarfs in their Confrontation game (the Dwarfs of Mid-Nor) and that didn't seem to do much to motivate GW.
wallacer
I'm not talking about Chaos Dwarfs or a competitor to Chaos Dwarfs in a rule set, I'm talking about a competitor to GW. GW is fat and lazy because of their near monopoly in this space. Competition is good because it spurs the incumbent. Competition would be the best thing that could ever happen to this industry.
I used Quark as an example simply because customers were begging Quark for feature enhancements, and Quark's attitude was "F-you, your opinion means nothing to us", they literally had the market sewn up. Then they went on an ever more bizarre turn of events of literally alienating their entire customer base. Some of us watching it unfold sat down and said "Are they really doing this", others said there is no way Quark is going to loose their position, never gonna happen. If ever you wanted a case study in how to NOT treat your customer, Quark would be it.
Low and behold Adobe was VERY ACTIVE in listening to what Quark's short comings were and within 2 versions had exceeded Quark's tool set with InDesign 2.0. They literally delivered with version 2 everything Quark's users had been advocating for in some cases 10 years. So when Quark fumbled Adobe was ready.
Is this the same industry, obviously not. Is this the same game as it were? No. But it serves an example that NO company is immune to this. No company can assume that they will maintain the market position of dominance for years to come. Monopolies all come to an end sooner or later, even as unfathomable as it may seem even Microsoft's dominance will end at some point. Don't believe me? Ask IBM. Until 1992 they WERE computing. Look at where they are now...
Quark express?... GW is a toy company...
and the best customer is not "the customer you already have" for a toy company...
its the customer you're gonna have... because unlike us... most kids grow up...
GW is making no money from us... and stand to make no money from us...
GW also does not make any money from producing rules...
they are breaking even at best... and thats only after a book has been on the shelf for years...
GW makes toys... GW sells toys...
GW makes money by selling toys...
not by selling rules... or complicated software...
metro_gnome
Metro-
Good points however as Grim pointed out they can easily do just that, make money from rules with minimal expenditure. The toys are already made, simply re-purpose them to another use as he has outlined.
Lastly it could be argued that the rules are simply a loss leader. They don't make money for GW, or might even cost GW far bit to produce. However they do enable those endeavors that do make GW money. Its no different then a grocery store selling items on the front page of their weekly ad at a loss because it drives traffic into the store.
remember when WD used to print conversion articles and a set of rules so you could use them in your games........
Hammerhand
Which is what Black Gobbo is for now. Which brings up a question. Has anyone tried submitting an article to Black Gobbo or White Dwarf on converting Chaos Dwarfs from BFSP or other kits? It might be worth a shot to try submitting an article like that, along with pictures of various conversions using the same technique for their standard "Gallery" examples.
Heck, even just sending in Xander's video guide might work.
Black Gobbo USED to be that sort of thing. Nowadays they don’t spend the time to make those articles, they just have lame articles like “How to Assemble VC Skeletons”, “Assembling VC Ghouls”, Masterclass Varghulf - reprinting things from other parts of the site or what’s in White Dwarf. Its a real shame.
Good points however as Grim pointed out they can easily do just that, make money from rules with minimal expenditure. The toys are already made, simply re-purpose them to another use as he has outlined.
Willmark
but you don't need rules for this... if a person is this wacky... they are this wacky... they are gonna go out and get all the conversion bits to make their dwarfs evil... just like just about everybody on this site... theres no need for rules... there are dwarf rules...
You seem to think the bits order system doesn't cost them any money... or that somehow they recoup enough from CD players to make it worthwhile to invest in a rules system... when in fact I suspect that bits ordering only makes a profit on space marines... and even then only marginal...
It seems as though you are saying that GW had the right idea with CDs all along... that the stagnation and forced conversion under RH was somehow a great business model for selling CDs... or that a release like Kislev was some sort of smashing success story... i think the financial statistics on either example would tell an entirely different story...
Its no different then a grocery store selling items on the front page of their weekly ad at a loss because it drives traffic into the store.
yes... but putting the cereal on sale and not providing the milk is not good business either...
as athought has anyone tried getting to Jervise Johnson because he was the one who came up with the blood angels codex in white dwarf and it sounds like he enjoyed doing it. if you mention a chaos dwarf army list in white dwarf for warhammer players (mabey for warhammers 25th B-day) he might get tempted
Whose talking bits? I’m merely talking about the models (ie plastics that are already available) in order for the average player to make a unit he’s going to have to buy chaos warriors, dwarfs and possibly marauders as well.
You think this is a deterant. If I’m reading Grim correct thinks the opposite, so do I. Having a buyer purchase two sets of plastic or even three is better then one or zero…
Note I don’t think your wrong simply there are pros and cobs to either viewpoint.
well even if it is hopeless ill try anyway maybe ill play up itl be fun to do more than we want stuff now ill give him this address and if he wants he can look
i dont expect an answer or even for him to read it but for what it will cost me (time ink paper postage) ill give it a try
right… so I can buy 3 boxed sets from GW to make one regiment… or I can hunt down the olde models on ebay for about the same cost…
there is minimal return for GW on number 1 because the demographic is too small… there is no return for GW on number 2 because they have priced themselves out of the market…
or they could just release rules when they have the models to accompany those rules…
its not hopeless turquois… this thread is about good news… its about official CD rules and Models… still CD players have to find some reason to slag on GW…
I’ll continue to slag GW as long as I feel it is warranted. Its warranted thus the flack.
Market dicates what happens. GW thought Hats would be a great idea, the market thought otherwise.
GW seems to think bundling CDs into Chaos is going to solve the problem. To which I maintain its a slippery slope. Because done badly again (read the hats fiasco) means the end of chaos dwarfs. Thats my concern.
Option #2 is the only option for those who like hats. Option #1 is the reality for anyone who is not into hats. And whose to blame? GW. Sculpting is option 4 but not everyone has the time or skill, or both. Option #5 is some might choose to not buy anything…
And yes I get your point about GW not really caring about the established players, that a re-release is targeted at kids. And as I have contented all along is just another problem of GW, thus the afore mentioned flack.
I love warhammer, I loathe GW, thats the difference.
Reading the Legendary Battles article in this month’s White Dwarf, it doesn’t list CD’s in the allying table, but states Chaos refers to ‘all Chaos armies’. I assume that this would include CD’s, which seems to lend credence to the possibility of Dawi Zharr in HoC.
option 2 is necessary for anyone who wants their army to look differently than GWs current range… those who want lithe daemonettes will have to seek them out on ebay after may… the absurdity demanding both on the same sprue defies logical response…
option 5 is sure as hell better than option 6… buy some other companies range… like rackham… to use with the rules GW invested in… but somehow failed to produce models for…
but i can assure you that 2,3,5,6 are all better options for the average gamer than either 1 or 4… and 3 is still the best option for GW as a toy company… which is my contention… your model runs money right into secondary market at best… and the hands of their competitors at worst… i realize you wish they had a competitor… but to run the company so poorly as to create one?
and for what? you hear my point but you dont “get it”… there is no return on your investment targeting toys at any other market that kids… there never will be… Old farts with an army to dust off when the rules get remade are simply not a demographic…