The Flying Beaver:
Post your tips for fighting Ogre Kingdom armies here.
The Flying Beaver:
Post your tips for fighting Ogre Kingdom armies here.
Blunders aren’t as bad as you think. Most units only consist of one rank, so unless the enemy judges its charge perfectly, they get at least two rounds of shooting off (mor ef you use the earthshaker well). This means you normally hit every model once (50% chance of hitting, two rolls per model) and at S5 you’ll do some wounds too. Since most ogres only have a save of 5+ top, S5 blunders effectively ignore their saves. this is often enough to force a panic test. Just remember to fire your blunders BFORE anything else, to get the maximum number of rolls. With their multiple wounds, boltthrowers are also great. Try and enflade the enemy (shoot down the files) as this can take out loads of ogres if you keep rolling well on your multiple wound rolls. If not then hey, they still rock, and even if they kill one ogre, at 30pts they’ve paid for themselves! Blunders are also great for killing Gnoblars, and this is VERY important, as they are the only source of rnak bonus in an ogre army.
So how many units of blunderbusses would you suggest? I have seen an army of Ogres in our group tear apart a 4000pts shooty Dark Elf army recently, which pretty much turned Ogres into my most feared opponent.
The Flying Beaver:
I’d avoid blunderbusses altogether actually. Remember that if you’re in range to shoot them, they’re within charge range. And you’re not getting many shots against 3 models. Use the points on warriors instead. Bolt throwers are great, bull centaurs are fantastic, and shadow sorcerers with unseen lurker are incredible.
I’d go with a hammer and anvil strategy. Take a Great Taurus, wolf riders, and bull centaurs on one flank, and put your war machines (minimum of 2 bolt throwers) with Chaos Dwarf Warriors, wizards and chaos dwarf hero (who should be your general if you have a taurus) and the many naked hobgoblin bait units in the centre.
The key is to slow them down. With 6" movement, they’ll overrun a shooty army if you don’t stop them marching. If you can combine the earthshaker with a sacrificial unit of wolf riders - or even a Hobbo hero on wolf or some unseen lurkered vanilla hobbos - you can slow them down to 3" a turn. Another tactic is to slow some areas of the line and not others, so that their army arrives in pieces. Then you can prioritise your targeting at the closest units and wipe the damn things out. You can even maouver your bolt throwers using unseen lurker to the flanks, then enflade your enemies. I intend to try this theory against ogres soon, but it rocks against dwarfs
Likely build for a Ogre army:
Tyrant with Tenderiser
Butcher with Bangstick
Bruiser with army banner
Probably another Butcher
Use the Earthshaker to slow down the Tyrant, use Bolt throwers to shoot at him/his unit. Use fire magic to burn his unit.
Failing that, divert the unit with hobgobs then hit it in the flank.
A Tyrant with Tenderiser is a terrifying thing, you should not be afraid to expend a lot of resources against it.
The spell from the bruisers to watch out for is the one that inflicts panic tests, especially for your Hobgoblins (and especially if he has the magic item that makes the panic test be at -1).
Use your Power dive to dispel RiP spells from the butchers, some of which can provide huge boosts to Ogre units such as regen.
Throw Hobgoblins at his Gnoblars, use wolf riders to chase the scrap launcher.
Remember that he has to move a certain distance to get his impact hits from the Ogre Units, so don’t be afraid to park your units right in front of his Ogres to deny him those impact hits.
Be aware that if he is smart he will be trying to bait your units into exposing their flanks. Do not be afraid to move your units up close and force him to charge you. Remember, you will have more shooting than him. He needs to get into combat more than you do. Use that against him.
Large units of Hobgobilins work well, with standards, armour/sheilds if you can afford. Ogres are easily ounumbers and and can often breakthem with sheer numbers.
Watchout for leadblectchers, i find these painful at times.
Earthshakers are always usfull…
Boltthrows are great against them.
Deathrocket his Gnoblars. Template weapons on large units are good.
Thats about all for now.
Use lots of Earthshakers. You need to slow down his troops or you’re dead. Once he’s crawling instead of running, you can charge him with your Hobbos and Warriors- if you can get the charge, he’s dead.
Warriors with shields are very good because they can survive the Ogres’ attacks and then strike back.
Earthshakers, as said before, are great against ogres, sneaky gits are usefull when dealing with MSU of vanilla Ogres (club and nothing else), most ogres in general in fact die quickly to poisoned attacks (Just save the ironguts for the bolt throwers…), also make sure you get rid of the gnoblars, once you have, the ogre army loses any static CR it may have had.
Its also worth getting rid of the butcher (if there is one in the army) early on, gut magic is very easy to cast, and can be very good indeed (just remember that it only works on other Ogre units (so you don’t have to worry about a slavegiant becoming stubborn or stuff like that…).
Its all about flanks vs ogres or any army based on few models on 40mm bases. March up a unit of 20 naked hobgobs and angle them say 45 degrees to the table edges, and put forward bull centaurs and bull taurus on either flank. whatever declares a charge vs the bait, think logically about where they will end up if you hold and are destroyed, or flee and they run you over and go full charge distance… what will give you the flank charge.
A unit of 10 naked hobgobs charges the flank of 3 bulls… you may score 1 wound, likely lose 2 back… but you have 1 for flank, 1 for outnumber, 1 for rank… you will win by 1 or tie. (but dont depend on hobgobs passing a fear test to charge!)
Dont charge anywhere where your characters will face a tenderizer or other nasty death weapon!
gnoblars away from the general are a good target for flying terror causers… drop in on a flank or rear in a way that lines up a useful charge into ogres flanks next turn, think a turn ahead!
A lot of disposable hobgoblins could be very helpful against ogres as they’ll usually be within charge range by turn 2.
Fast cav are essential for slowing them down and destroying their weaker units.
Bolt throwers will rip them apart. I would say stay clear of death rockets but keep an earthshaker for good luck. Bull centaurs are key because they’re very fast and very hard-hitting.
A Taurus coulod also be a good idea as he’s very fast and could easily knock out a small unit of ogres if he got the flank charge in.
Magic defense is very important as those butchers can cast quite a lot of damaging spells.
A.Ogres have a big problem with leadership in 2 ways:
1. your average ogre has LD7, not to good in any case
2. ogres need a gnoblars rank bonus to win combats without the charge, without them there chance of beating a ranked unit is slim, and a gnoblars LD 5
so a taurus is always good (or even a llammassu, but i prefer the fire bull better)
B. blunderbusses aint good against ogres, but they are good against gnoblars, which ogres need there rank bonus, so there actualy a good investment, and most ogre players don’t realise they need them until they run into the static 5
C. multiwound weapons are your freind, and templates can easily kill 2 ogres a turn (d6 wounds) so a death rocket and earthshaker becomes double usefull, and the regular bolt throwers are good too, the D3 only wounds are annoyying, but the chance of a flank shot is good enough to make up for the slim chance of killing an ogre
The main thing to keep in mind with ogres is their speed. Chances are, you’re only getting in two rounds of shooting before they’re on top of you. The earthshaker is a must. I would avoid blunderbusses. You hit each model once on a 4+, and there’s the chance that they may be too close to stand and shoot against. Go with archers (or my personal favorites “Ruglud’s Armoured Orcs” Regiment of Renown).
@ AGPO - I never thought of unseen lurker on the bolt throwers, great idea. Consider it stolen.
Distilled this into a Chaos Dwarfs vs Ogre Kingdoms page on the Wiki.
1st tip - do not deploy in 12 " only 11" but do your whole army this way and keep it quiet. This way even if he goes first 1st turn he moves 12" towards you, second turn he think he may be in charge range and charges and fails his charge or if he is smarter he realises he isn’t and shuffles forward a few inches. Either way on your 2nd turn march your combat units straight forward to stop as close to him as you can - this denies him the bull charge.
Now as a ex-ogre player let me tell you that the bull charge can make all of the difference and when playing ogres you should deny them the opportunity to use it whenever possible.
As for shooting them bolt-throwers are great and sorcerers with lore of fire will make a mess of them.
Bull-Centaur units are highly effective against ogres and a unit if them in the flank of any ogre unit will typically destroy the unit first turn (flank, outnumber and 3 + wounds leaves the ogres with a very tough break test)
I wouldn’t bother with Great Weapons on warriors combats will be won by static combat res rather than kills. Wolfriders in a nice long line behind his battleline will ensure that when he breaks from combat you dont have to worry about your short-legged warrirors catching them
Primary threats come from the characters - Tyrants with the tenderiser are brutal in challenges and butchers (expect 3 in a competitive list) can be nasty. Taking them out should be a priority.
All in all ogres should present little threat to a well constructed list
hope that helps
Kool info about the 11"es.
I’ve only played one 1000 point game so far against them, (And I’m still a rookie player) but I found the 2 Bolt Throwers, a Death Rocket and the Earth Shaker were quite effective. Also, take a Sorcerer with the Chalice of Darkness to help minimize the number of Power Dice he can use for the Gut Magic. Finally, I fielded a Hobgoblin Hero on wolf with a Great Weapon and the Black Hammer of Hashut.