[Archive] Combining Units

CheTralfara:

One thing that I’ve never found to be clarified in the rule book… is the question: can you combine 2 units of the same troop type that were deployed seperately, if they catch up with each other (mid-battle).

For example you have 2 units of 10 hobbos (equiped/armed the same). Can the second unit sneak up on the first unit, touch it’s back, and if it has the same frontage, can they combine to form 1 unit of 20 hobbos.

what’s the word on this?

.nick

wallacer:

Almost certainly not, I should think, although I have no hard evidence on hand to back this claim up :rolleyes:

CheTralfara:

The only problem I could see with it would be the possibility of double standards and double champs and musicians… but even that seems like it could work… an 2 extra attacks in the front (1 from each champ), +2 combat res instead of +1 (for the 2 standards), and for tie breakers if both units have musicians, then the one with 2 musicians wins!

then of course it makes the unit extra valuable to kill too, as they would win 2 standards for defeating it in combat.

Baggronor:

Nope, can’t be done.

CheTralfara:

I’d like more specific information than that… How do you know it can’t be done? Where in the rule book does it ever address this.  I would agree if it doesn’t specifically allow you to do it in the rulebook, that it is likely not possible… but that doesn’t change the fact that 2 units of identical troop types/armament  could connect to each other with their movement, and that begs the question… would they be counted as 1 unit?

Swissdictator:

I'd like more specific information than that... How do you know it can't be done? Where in the rule book does it ever address this.  I would agree if it doesn't specifically allow you to do it in the rulebook, that it is likely not possible... but that doesn't change the fact that 2 units of identical troop types/armament  could connect to each other with their movement, and that begs the question... would they be counted as 1 unit?

CheTralfara
No, there are no rules to allow this anywhere in the main rulebook.

Even though it would seem simple enough to do, I can see how it could create arguments as well. It's simpler just to not worry about it and not allow it to be done.

dedwrekka:

I'd like more specific information than that... How do you know it can't be done? Where in the rule book does it ever address this.  I would agree if it doesn't specifically allow you to do it in the rulebook, that it is likely not possible... but that doesn't change the fact that 2 units of identical troop types/armament  could connect to each other with their movement, and that begs the question... would they be counted as 1 unit?

CheTralfara
No, there are no rules to allow this anywhere in the main rulebook.

Even though it would seem simple enough to do, I can see how it could create arguments as well. It's simpler just to not worry about it and not allow it to be done.


Swissdictator
Seconded, the proof against it isn't that it's addressed, but that it's not addressed anywhere in the rules. The legal maneuvers and such are outlined in the rules, and there's nothing allowing you to combine multiple units.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

The only way is if the first unit was beaten down, fleed (But not off the table) and regrouped with another unit. That part is in the rules, but I can’t remeber where.

BilboBaggins:

The only way is if the first unit was beaten down, fleed (But not off the table) and regrouped with another unit. That part is in the rules, but I can't remeber where.

Tarrakk Blackhand
That sounds to 40K Orks to me.

Tarrakk Blackhand:

It’s there. Try looking under “Routing” or “Regrouping”. (If memory serves me)

BilboBaggins:

No routing or regrouping in the index of the 7th edtion rulebook.

The only mention about joining units references Characters only.

When rallying troops you only get to REFORM (the exception is Fast Cav and they’re able to move after rally) after you successfully rally the unit.

The only time I every heard of units joining other units was in the Orks book in 40K. If they are fleeing and run into another unit of Orks they stop running and make a larger unit of Orks.

So I would say NO you cannot have a unit join another unit. If you want to do so play Orks in 40K. :cheers

Tarrakk Blackhand:

My appologies Billbo. I looked through the 7th Ed rules and you’re right. There’s noting like that in there.

I must have remebered it wrongly.

Kera foehunter:

well being to groups if like orc animoisty would be a factor but with hobos there probly not

so.sad:

So I would say NO you cannot have a unit join another unit. If you want to do so play Orks in 40K. :cheers

BilboBaggins
or necrons (WBB )
btt: If joining units was possible, minimum required units would be quite senseless.

for example:
Skaven clanrat units need to be large to be effective.
You can field one unit of slaves for every unit of clanrats.
If joining units was possible, this would ask players to cheat. Just get 4 minimum sized units of clanrats and therefor 4 large units of slaves. In game join the 4 clan rat units and your all set.

Of course you can take 4 minimum sized clanrats anyway, but doing so would almost surely have you loosing the game (the fleeing terror thingy kicks in).

regards

Swissdictator:

IIRC Bilbo fast cav can only move on a rally if they fled from a charge and have musician. Correct me if I’m wrong though.

BilboBaggins:

From the Big Red Book (ok I’m parphrasing) page 70.

It’s a Yes, on the moving (and shooting if using move and shoot weapons) when rallied after feigned flight (fled as charge reaction.) But it’s a No on needing a muscian. The musician only adds +1 to the leadership test when rallying no matter the type of unit.

I don’t think I have ever used fast cav in any of my armies (never bought/built the models).

two_heads_talking:

You cannot join two units into one.  I concur with Bilbo here…  In fact it only mentions characters being able to join. As far back as at least 4th edition you’ve never been able to join two seperate but like units…

In fact Che, I’d challenge you this… You want us to show you where it says you can’t, I challenge you to show me where it says you can…

Thommy H:

Further to two_heads_talking’s point, it’s always worth remembering that GW’s rules are inclusive, not exclusive. They tell you what you can do, not what you can’t. It’s by far the easiest way to design a game, because otherwise you end with an almost infinite list of exceptions - for example, there’s nothing in the rules that says I can’t physically smash up my opponent’s models and declare victory on the basis that he didn’t bring an army.

BilboBaggins:

Further to two_heads_talking's point, it's always worth remembering that GW's rules are inclusive, not exclusive. They tell you what you can do, not what you can't. It's by far the easiest way to design a game, because otherwise you end with an almost infinite list of exceptions - for example, there's nothing in the rules that says I can't physically smash up my opponent's models and declare victory on the basis that he didn't bring an army.

Thommy H
Saying that you can do something because the rulebook doesn't say can't is idoitic at best. It's being a RULES LAWYER and most people hate rules lawyers, I prefer to feed them to Hashut.:hashut

If your local law doesn't state that killing someone is illegal doesn't make it legal because there is a larger law in play. it's called Common Sense.

Smashing you opponents models would be vandalism and that is against the laws of the land.

Instead of looking at stuff that isn't written and say that it's not there so I can do it you should go if it's not written then it's not allowed. Otherwise you will get into more fights at the gaming table and nobody will want to play you.

Remember the game is supposed to be fun.

Ubertechie:

Whilst there is nothing explicitly stating you cannot do this (notable exceptions are characters forming units themselves and flying monsters (or characters riding them)doing likewise) I have never heard of anyone doing this or even asking about it. I think that the fact that the only mention of joining (and leaving) units is solely within the characters section is indication enough that they are the sole type of model that is capable of such an action