[Archive] Competitive 2500

Billy Ocean:

This is the list I’m currently using in competitive games, i.e. tournaments and tournament practice. It has to go up against all the cheesiest builds you can imagine, so power and versatility are the name of the game. Its already the product of a lot of trial-and-error, but I’d really appreciate any comments and new insights you guys have!

Lords - 365pts

Sorcerer Prophet, Lvl 4 Metal, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Channeling Staff

Heroes - 486pts

Dark Castellan, BSB, shield, Mask of the Furnace

Taur’ruk, blackshard armor, great weapon, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone, Other Trickster’s Shard

Khan, wolf, light armor

Core - 643pts

23 Infernal Guard, full command, hand weapon & shield <----- SP & DC go here

21 Infernal Guard, banner & musician, great weapons

Special - 615pts

3 Bull Centaurs, full command, great weapons, Gleaming Pennant <----- Taur’ruk goes here

Magma Cannon

Magma Cannon

Magma Cannon

Rare - 390pts

K’daai Destroyer

5 Wolf Raiders, spears

Total - 2499pts

Some notes on the list

- I gave up on deathshriekers because they are unreliable and need to be babysat by a demonsmith. Clustering warmachines within a demonsmith bubble means there’s a single big target for ambushers, flyers and fast cav to attack.

- Magma cannons work well without babysitting, so I space them out throughout my battleline and don’t worry too much about protecting them. As long they get a couple shots off before getting destroyed they earn their keep.

- Magma cannons and metal magic work well together - plague of rust helps them destroy elite knights and monstrous cav as easily as they do infantry/ogres.

- I’m really enjoying metal magic. The threat of Final Trans going off on units with lots of characters means my opponents will let the 2-diceable buffs and damage spells through while I still have dice in my hand. Glittering robe on 2 IG units is very powerful.

- I don’t have a fixed strategy with the list. I often send the destroyer and bulls way ahead to crush one flank, while the magma cannons work away at the center / other flank. The IG either hold their ground or advance slowly, depending on whether my opponent has the ranged advantage over me. In the late game, the destroyer and bulls are ready to assist with flank / rear charges.

- The list has been doing very well against some very competitive builds - ogres, skaven, HE, DE.

- Its major weak-point seems to be against the WoC build with no good targets for the magma cannons - all chariots and monsters.



Seems like a fairly solid list overall, just a few quick notes:

You’re probably better off changing the hobgoblins with spears into a single hobgoblin khan on a wolf with a spear, as he is fast cav as long as he doesn’t have a shield, is easier to move around, has a higher T, S, and Ld, and perhaps most importantly, ignores animosity for times when the prophet is not near. Though it does have fewer wounds.

You can probably drop some of the command, especially on the Bull Centaurs, as I don’t trust them not to flee and lose the one carrying the banner, but this might be your own preference.

I’d suggest maybe dropping one of the magma cannons and the wolf riders and maybe trim down points and get yourself at least one rocket and maybe some hob goblins on foot with at least shields. A rocket is very helpful against warriors due to all of their single model, expensive units. I’ve had a lot of luck with a small group of cheap hob goblins acting either as chaff or a short term tarpit against monsters. In addition, against those annoying elf lists that never get into h2h, reforming gobbos can surprise their units when they kill a number of them with throwing weapons.

Billy Ocean:

Thanks for the feedback.

I agree that Khans are superior in almost every way to units of wolfriders. Except they don’t provide an additional drop in the deployment phase, which I’ve been finding very useful to see how my opponent’s army is shaping up, before I lay down all-important pieces like the centaurs and magma cannons. So useful in fact that I’m considering trading the existing Khan for another unit of riders.

The command in the bull centaurs are pretty useful - the champ is essential so I can go 2x2 and force all attacks to be allocated against the champ or Taur’ruk, thus minimizing damage. The muso is needed for reforms, and the gleaming pennant helps me function outside of the general/bsb bubble, which this unit needs to do.

I’m starting to agree with you that some deathshriekers may be necessary. The chariot+monster WoC build is very common at tourneys, and I need something that can remove single high-toughness models. The versatility of deathshriekers makes them very attractive, I think I’ve just had poor luck with them so far. What do you think about the following modification:

-2 Magma cannons

+2 Deathshriekers

+ Lvl 1 Fire (to babysit)

+ bows on the wolfriders (replace spears) to pop the charmed shield on Demon Princes etc before targetting with shriekers

I can make those changes by losing one of the GW Infernal Guard.


I think the changes are overall good. I understand the issue concerning drops, perhaps instead of the two rockets, a hellcanon? The hellcanon is not placed at the same time as other war machines, as it is a monster with handlers, benefits from engineer rerolls should you require, and works well enough babysitting one of the warmachines to protect from sneaky gits trying to out maneuver you.

Unsure that you need the engineer should you take the hellcanon, and you should keep the spears on the wolf riders rather than the bows, as their purpose is to charge at some point, and spears help more. Also, unsure on points, but they may want a musician. +1 leadership to rally is nice.

Do note: the khan is fast cav if on a wolf without a shield, and comes stock with a thowing weapon. Given this, it is possible for said khan to zoom up the battle field with a possible 30" movement (vanguard, march) and then throw his thowing weapon with only a -1 penalty most of the time can break the charmed shield. A good way to make use of the khan rather than use archers.

Billy Ocean:

That is a nice point about the Khan popping the charmed shield with his throwing weapon. I’d probably want 2 of them, just to be safe. No point wasting a deathshrieker shot before that shield is gone.

I’ll get some practice games in this weekend with the list as-is, and then make my decision about changes.