[Archive] Competitive CD List

Slacker:

Okay, first post, so, hey. Now, on to it.

Bit of background first. This isn’t really intended on being an especially fluffy list, although from what I know it’s not especially unfluffy. My local gaming environment-Long Island, New York-is rather competitive. Khorne Daemons, 3 Stegadon lists, that sort of thing is generally considered par for the course in the area here. So it’s going to seem a bit, I’m guessing, harsh compared to a lot of the lists I’ve seen posted here lurking. We use the Direwolf FAQ, so you know how we’d treat the Bull Centaurs. We got to a fair number of independent GTs-the Colonial, Crossroads, etc, and they tend to use it.

The thought is that I have four very difficult to kill, relatively hard core units in the three regiments of dwarves and the Black Orcs. They’re flexible, too, either able to go sword/board or great weapon (or in the Orcs case, twin choppas). These guys are tough to kill and are generally going to be high leadership, especially with LD10 in the middle of them.

They’re supported by the throwaway units of goblins. They’re 30 points each, I can afford to throw them away-they’re slaves, right? Moreover, I can afford to be aggressive with them. Send them after warmachines, they’re something people can’t afford to completely ignore. They can contest table quarters, etc.

The four bolt throwers are part of the incentive for the enemy to come to me. They kill things like stegs and steam tanks and force people to deal with them. The two level 2s are a decent amount of offensive magic and give me two scrolls, which means I should be safe until Turn 3 against anyone but possibly vamps. By 3, I should be in combat with at least a few units. The Lord is a guided missile, similar to how a Nike Saurus works-he’s going to start in a unit, probably the Black Orks, and charge out, with a bucketload of S7 attacks. 3+/5+ is fairly survivable and he instagibs chariots. Hell, he can pretty much kill a steam tank in a turn or two. I’m taking advantage of an LD10 hero for my general.

So…tell me what you think? Am I overlooking something?

Lord:

Bull Centaur Lord: 170 points

Shield: 3

Black Hammer of Hashut: 45pts

Armor of the Furnace: 45pts

Total: 263 points

Hero:

Chaos Dwarf Hero: 60pts (Army General)

Heavy Armor: 4

Enchanted Shield: 15

Sword of Battle: 15

Total: 94

Sorcerer (Lvl2): 100 points

Dispell Scroll: 25

Power Stone: 20

Total: 145

Sorcerer (Lvl2): 100 points

Dispell Scroll: 25

Power Stone: 20

Total: 145

Character Total: 647 points

19xChaos Dwarf Warriors: 171 points

Great Axe 38

Command: 30

Banner of Slavery: 50

Total: 289 points

19xChaos Dwarf Warriors: 171 points

Great Axe: 38

Command: 30

Total: 239 points

19xChaos Dwarf Warriors: 171 points

Great Axe: 38

Command: 30

Total: 239 points

15xHobgoblins: 30 points

15xHobgoblins: 30 points

15xHobgoblins: 30 points

15xHobgoblins: 30 points

15xHobgoblins: 30 points

Core Total: 957 points

Special:

10xSneaky Gits: 50 points

2xBolt Thrower: 60 points

2xBolt Thrower: 60 points

20xBlack Orcs: 260 points

Shields; 20

Standard/Musician: 18

Total: 298

Special Total: 468

Rare:

5xBull Centaurs: 100 points

Heavy Armor 5

Total: 105

Earthshaker: 110 points

Rare Total: 215

Total: 2247

Alan the evil:

That’s what I think:

BC lord with armour of fournace is there mainly for great demon of khorne I suppose… This could be a good way to save up points with hm instead than hero lord of great taurus…

4 BT and earthsaker are a must, even for presence of large targets (great demon and stegadon) on your opponents lists.

I use 5 BC’s too, but if you find space for 6th it could be good.

If you front mainly khorne and lizardman you can drop one sorcerer (khorne has not good magic, lizardmen have got too magic power) for BSB with sword of might and armour of gazrak, merge 3 units of chaos dwarfs in 2 blocks of 24 models, one with general and war banner and the other with BSB and banner of slavery taking them close each other, downgrade BO in hammer unit with 6/8 models and fielding blunderbusses, very usefull against pyrodemons, fleshound, skinks and every unitwith ranks.

Now you have disposable hobbos (maybe it’s better field less units with 20 naked models) that can reroll psicology and combat tests , two strong units and one hammer unit.

You can even drop GW in CD infantry: you have 3 ranks, probably outnumber, as well as standard and another +1 on combat result for each unit (warbanner and BSB) and besides they havegot 3 attacks with upgraded strenght of heros. So infantry can stand with his 3+ armour save.

Last things:

Sneaky gits are quite useless: you can spend that point for BT #5 and #6

power Stone costs 25.

Hope to be usefull

Bassman:

I’d like to join Alan for Italian suggestion time! :hat off

It would be nice to develop a competitive list thread developing not only the list but also the tactics.

I’m a poor tactician but I’d like to give my two cents. :slight_smile:

I like your bull lord. Hitty and strong.

I do not see the point of two sorcerers, one is a caddy, three/four is magic heavy but two? Mmmh, could you elaborate, please? I quote Alan for a BSb instead of a sorcerer.

I’d give the gem of Gnar to your lord. His champion could challenge a Vampire, and you get one turn, then the vampire will be freezed by your lord and you gain turn two, giving you time to countercharge with BOs or Great weapons.

The Bsb should have armor of Gaz… of course!

I prefer blocks of 25 hobgoblins, they are 50 points each and they are not easily panicked by missile fire. I stared at three of them taking three turns of fire from a dwarf army (thanks also to the shaker) and finally managing to reach dwarf lines without a panic test!

I quote most of Alan’s suggestion and I tell you I never leave home without heavy armor for my bull centaurs!

They need it, it’s just 5 points in total! Give them a proper gear, they need the most protection as possible.

:hashut

Slacker:

I discovered my power stone snafu. I’m going to drop the sneaky gits all-together, upgrade to 2 more scrolls instead of stones, and pad out the regular goblin ranks.

I prefer the great weapons, it gives my units power beyond static res, but I suppose I should game it out. To be clear, this is an all-comers army, there’s probably about 30 active Fantasy players in my area and I see anything from lizards to khemri to gnoblars in a given week. They’re generally just hard core versions of said lists-we had our gnoblar player go 8-2 in our last league, they’re a surprisingly viable list.

Groznit Goregut:

I’m only involved in theoryhammer at the moment with CD’s, but I can offer up some ideas.

The idea of lots of 15 hobgobs is rather interesting. They are all inter-changeable and all offer threats. Most people have them either as units of 20 or as units of 10. You might want to split them up into those two types of units. There is a threat about 10 naked hobgoblins in this forum. They both hold different purposes. The little guys can be good diverters, table quarter grabbers, or can hunt war machines.

Otherwise, I think things look good. I think the Chalice is a good way to get rid of enemy spell casting ability. It can get rid of d3 enemy power dice each turn.

Alan the evil:

10 hobbos need to bait and flee while 20 must to try to stand one turn against enemies charge (helped by BSB or banner of slavery) but 15?
You don’t need 5 more models for baiting and you need not less than 5 models more to have 3 ranks and increase number of casualties for a panic test.
And what I don’t like is managing of 5 animose units!
They could get more difficult your CD blocks’ movements.

Chalice it’s good if you have at least 7/8 levels of magic and some power stone and dispel scrolls… else it stops you too in your magic phase and takes off your dispel dices in enemy magic phase.

With high Ld, T ans SA I consider BSB a must, like a lots of other players.

Gem of gnar is good into units with hero, but it’s more effectvie weared by a sorcerer because:
1- gem’s wearer can’t attack and sorcerer has got only one attack, so we don’t loose too much
2- gem’s wearer can’t be attacked and sorcerer usually has no armour or ward save… so enemies attacks gonna wound our troops hardly
It’s good to use it even in unit with high combat result: I use it in unit with 25 models (3 ranks and maybe overnumber), standard, war banner, BSB with 3 attacks S5… in this unit to take off attacks of opponents hero means win easily with high combat result

Slacker:

And what I don't like is managing of 5 animose units!
They could get more difficult your CD blocks' movements.

Alan the evil
My group's general philosophy in regards to Goblins is that, if it's going to work, it needs to exist in doubles. Or triples. With five units, if one bickers, no big deal, chances are you've got another unit nearby that can do the same job. I tend to agree with it, and the whole point is they're expendable. If it's good to have two throwaway units, it's even better to have five or six-worst case, you've given up 250 points (out of 2250), with most of your points in units that're very difficult to kill, and you can do more with them. My first game I parked a unit in a woods on my table edge and ignored them the entire game. A 20 point unit of hobgoblins secured a 100 point swing for me by holding that table corner.

Alan the evil:

Slacker

How do you deploy all this units?

You have 5 expendable blocks and 4 hard blocks.

If you put them before blocks of CD and they squabble you can’t do anything with your CD’s

If they are on the flanks and squabble you are compelled to move CD unit in consequence of this

If they are on the flanks and they move straight they could uncover flank of CD units.

If you don’t want to deploy them in defence of your core units and put them on the flanks of the board, bowers are better then infantry.

But if you like al this units and they work well for you (and first of all if you get funny to expende slaves!!;)) that’s good…:hat off

Slacker:

Well, I juggled the list a bit, went with four blocks of 25 and 2 blocks of 10. The blocks of 10 are just drops, to draw out an opponent’s more important units. They go in each corner, contest a table quarter, and hey, if I can use them to flank something, that’s great.

I used two blocks to screen my CDs, and two blocks to anchor the flanks of the ‘hard’ stuff. If the gobbos bicker…so what. You’re a dwarf player, you’re not going to dictate the pace of engagement no matter how hard you try. By turn 3, you’ll have had the opportunity to move the gobbos forward as a bait unit, or, alternatively, use them to get on an opponent’s flank when you significantly out number them. I used two 25 man blocks to tie down an ancient steg with the engine, because he just didn’t have enough stuff to keep his flank clear.

The name of the game is points denial. You’re going to lose goblins, you’re going to lose bolt throwers. Keep your three hard core rank-n-flank units alive, and if possible, don’t spend your bull centaurs too easily. Your opponent can kill a hundred models, sure, but it’s less than 10% of your army by points. You slam your dwarves and black orcs into whatever hammer unit that’s made itself feel good pounding gobbos and beat it by static res and a couple of hero-inflicted wounds.

Obviously this doesn’t always work-I couldn’t get anything to break against lizards on Thursday, because of Cold Blooded and a Slann the BSB upgrade…but I was winning combat every turn by swamping them under with bodies. I wound up losing, but that was more due to the fact my dice were atrocious than anything else-when six bolt throwers at short range are shooting at a stegadon, and you inflict ONE bloody wound, you’re going to have a bad day.

I’m thinking about dropping the great axes on the dwarves, as their speed basically dictates they’re going to be taking a charge…which means taking the hand weapon/shield bonus rather than swinging at S5. Just rely on centaurs, BOs, and characters to do the killing.

I’ve also dropped the earthshaker and adding in a second unit of centaurs. It’s the ‘useful unit’ version of Gobbo Philosophy 101-if one’s a good, a second is better. One’s probably going to be killed, because they’re not something that your opponent is going to want to deal with…but the second will do some good killing. I think if you take two units of BCs they should go on the same flank. With a gobbo swarm, your opponent’s going to be done deploying long before you, which means you can save the bull centaurs to drop them where they can either survive to get in, or, die gloriously for Hashut.