gIL^:
I think you should sell the molds to another company. I know a few companies would snatch them up.
Obsidian:
Wow, what a load of bollocks! All the reasons they state are utter bullcrap and (but I’m not a lawyer!) sounds to me they don’t have anything valid to go by… I would place a call on several forums for people who actually know about this stuff. They might be interested to help you out with their expertise!
Baggronor:
Its all gone quiet on this front actually, dunno if that’s good or bad. Going to let sleeping dogs lie for now.
Kera foehunter:
There trying to do a follow up letter . They never did a second letter. Most people buckled.
Ghrask Dragh:
So, much happen while I was gone? Ha, good luck mate, take it easy and make it as easy as you can for yourself. :cheers
(Shhh, dont let them see my signature 
)
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Yeah…I read ALL 8 pages… (In one sitting and my eyes are very tired now) … but I would actually try and see if all this is legitimate or not.
In the past, I had to sue a “Ding-a-Ling” landlady I rented an appartment from who claimed I had destroyed it. She was complaining about a little “Ware and Tear” on the carpets and a little 3 mm chip on the stove. What she was really saying is that she wanted to keep the damage deposit I paid her at the begining of the contract. She was also quite upset because I had my girlfriend (now wife) coming over on a weekend to visit me.
I know this isn’t quite the same thing, but I had to go to a small claims court because of this nonsense…and I won the case because of the way I presented myself in court as well as the fact that, although she thought she had her “ducks in a row” she really didn’t have much to back her case upon. I think she was also convinced that I wasn’t going to sue her and that she could just have access to my money.
Anyway…all this aside…
In Canada there are a few legal presidents that MUST take place for someone to sue someone else.
First off, the suer MUST get a certified and verified legal letter to the sueie from a Canadian Court Claims Center. These are all “Legal Matters”, so the letter MUST be Noterized by a Notery Public. (might be different in a large case vs small case but something simular SHOULD be presented)
Secondly, termonology MUST be correct, as to the reasons WHY you are being sued, or in this case, why you are recieveing a C&D letter. Unlike Xandier below here :
They addressed the letter to Ontario, California instead of Ontario, Canada.Right here is legal matters that were not addressed propperly. Had Xandier been sued, he COULD HAVE had the case dismissed LEGALLY by those typo’s alone. He could have LEGALLY claimed that the person and web site they were trying to pursue DOESN’T ACTUALLY EXIST. …and GW would have fallen based on that fact alone.
- It arrived way after the posted date (likely for the above reason).
- The letter was poorly writen containing frequent typos.
- The most obvious typo was the typo in the domain name of the site itself (something like http://www.chaofs-dwarfs.com, if I recall correctly).
Secondly, someone on this thread pondered if a PDF could legally be considered as a certifiable C&D letter. This is one aspect I am not sure on, however, IMO is should have been delivered through the propper legal channels as I have mentioned above (Noterized, stamped, and dated letter).
As A GW retailer, I have placed a call to my GW rep…not naming names or whatever…but just basically asking if he knows the policy on C&D from their side and if he could quickly look into it. There might be good indication here that someone is either pranking you, or hacking you (As suspect by the virus) or something else. Hell, this might even be a third party trying to get you to either stop production of your models OR trying to get some $$$ from you in some creepy way. Lord knows there’s enough scammers out there on planet earth to really mess a guy up!
The fact that Xandier DID recieve a mailed out letter from (apperently from…) GW (Although mailed to the wrong place) tells me a slightly different story from the PDF you got…and that’s another reason why I wonder if it’s legitimate or not.
I agree with what some of the countless others have said on here : Don’t respond directly to GW right away…seek the legal advice you need and the “lingo” you need to speak BEFORE contacting them. Write up a proper legal letter…state the current (Gripe) case from GW against you in those legal terms…why they have reason to suspect you infringing on their IP…and then state your “Reverse Facts” about your models and the work you and Thommy H put into YOUR project and how you have dated, factual proff as to your release dates and how FW latter used YOUR IP on thier models which they released at a later time.
If this is a real and legitimate case from GW, then it may be thrown out on the basis of “Who stole from whom first” or something like that.
It’s Sunday today, so I don’t expect to hear much today from my GW rep, but I will post what I can when I find out.
I would also suggest that, in the meantime, you find out from those other companies that you know GW issued a C&D letter to, HOW GW passed along the C&D letter, if it was indeed stamped and noterized…what an “Offical” GW C&D letter looks like and all that stuff. MAKE SURE you have a legitimate GW C&D letter and not something some hacker created in photoshop.
The whole problem, IMHO, is that GW originally gave us a CD army to play in Warhammer Fantasy and then, after we all bought into it, they dropped the line-up. So guys like Xandier created CDO and guys like yourself made new models which got the popularity back to such a degree that GW paid some attention and FW “Brought Back” enough models to satisfy all of us.
Sad part to this is that GW is not really “Free” with their IP to their loyal fans and dedicated customers to the same extent that Paramont Studios backs up their Star Trek fans and “Practically” gives their Star Trek IP to whomever wants it. Paramont seems to understand that the fans carry the show and the merchandise. Fans keep it gong and fans incourage other fans to keep the ball rolling. Probably why Star Trek has lasted 50 years!
GW has a different perspective on the matter and really tries hard to “Lock Down” their world to the limits of their own doors. Yeah…we all love the game play…but there’s so many things that the general “Fan Boy” can’t do, like tattoo an Imperial Guard symbol on their arm, for example. Hell, if I saw an Imperial Guard logo on someone’s arm, I might ask about it and find out about the game that way. Somehow GW doesn’t see it that way though.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Talking things over with my GW rep and he’s saying that it might be a scam. The fact that you got a pdf is odd.
He’s recommending that you contact customer service (To get the phone number on the webste of your country) explian the situation, and send them the PDF and ask if you can get the legal team to confirm if they actually sent this or if it is fradulent.
Hope this helps!
gIL^:
Talking things over with my GW rep and he's saying that it might be a scam. The fact that you got a pdf is odd.I dono it might Give GW idea's. I would just leave it ignore GW and they might go away :hat off
He's recommending that you contact customer service (To get the phone number on the webste of your country) explian the situation, and send them the PDF and ask if you can get the legal team to confirm if they actually sent this or if it is fradulent.
Hope this helps!
Tarrakk Blackhand
Skink:
Are you sure about that? I mean, we're not talking about the grocery shop at the corner, we are talking about GW a huge multi national company... Would they really get involved in such low level scams?Talking things over with my GW rep and he's saying that it might be a scam. The fact that you got a pdf is odd.I dono it might Give GW idea's. I would just leave it ignore GW and they might go away :hat off
He's recommending that you contact customer service (To get the phone number on the webste of your country) explian the situation, and send them the PDF and ask if you can get the legal team to confirm if they actually sent this or if it is fradulent.
Hope this helps!
Tarrakk Blackhand
gIL^
Tarrakk Blackhand:
The “Scam” is probably not directly from GW. This is why it needs to be looked into as being legitimate.
Phone it in as “Anomynous”, but find out HOW the GW policy for C&D is “Suppose” to be handled and what a real C&D letter is suppoe to look like. You need to “Cover your ass” in every way possible.
My Rep was saying that some of these scammer/hackers work on people’s fears. If someone is expecting “Something” from someone, a hacker can find out what thay something is and then make their E-mail look like that something that that person would definatly open. Once the person opens it, “Pandora’s Box” unleashes the demon, if you know what I mean.
In Bagg’s case, he was expecting that perhaps someday GW “Might” order him a C&D letter. Maybe he posted that on his forum or whatever…or even here. Some strange hacker person from some 3rd world country or even a dude from some offbeat rival company, could have discovered this, looked at Bagg’s Web site…got his E-Mail…and “BANG!” fake, virus infected C&D GW PDF comes through his E-mail.
Bagg’s opens said E-mail, thinking it’s “Legit”, and now his accounts are “Nerfed” by a “Magic Virus”. I doubt GW would take the time to do something like that.
GW would probably “Legally” get Baggs to C&D if there was a problem. Being a multi national-multi-billion dollar company, I doubt they would sent something so stupid as a virused PDF. I imagine that their multitude of lawyers would at least have a legal typewriter, a stamp and an envelope in order to issue a C&D order.
The good news is that if Baggs DOES phone GW’s legal department and asks if they did send out the PDF, and he discovers that they didn’t…then Baggs can continue making the “Said” offensive figures AND can have a good night’s sleep upon discovering the truth. And we’d all like that!
Grimstonefire:
If it’s from a GW address then it’s more reliable I guess.
My concern with the ‘do nothing’ option is that the legal team probably have to justify their existence all the time by picking on the little guys. So you can bet this will be on someone’s list to follow up on.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
To satisfy my own curiosity…and to protect future CDO members in a simular situation, I personally phoned customer service myself. The guy there also suspected a scam, but gave me the Email for GW Legal Department.
Here’s the letter I sent :
Hello,
My name is Trevor and I own Monster Hobbies in High River, Alberta, Canada. I have been carrying your product for a few years in my hobby store and made many friends on online forums that support Games Workshop models and more.
I have a brief question about Games Workshop’s policies reguarding Cease and Desist letters for small companies who are making Fantasy and Futuristic figures that could be used in a game of Warhammer and/or Warhammer 40 000 as substitutes for GW models.
I personally am not making figures, but I do know of a few people around the internet who are and one person in paticular that recently recieved a “Cease and Desist” letter in the form of a PDF file that, upon opening, discovered that it was a corrupted data file that distributed a virus to his computer.
I know of another person who recieved a “Cease and Desist” letter for some T-shirts he was making to give away to his gaming club that used a GW logo. He recieved a “C&D” letter that was mailed to the wrong address (California instead of Ontario, Canada) and, when he finally got it, the letter was full of typo’s and not validated through any real legal channels.
I assume that these two examples were not from GW Legal Department, but from some other third party, possibly a hacker or scam artist trying to press his luck in some way or form, probably tio secure data from the victum or possibly money.
The reason why i think this is because in the past, I had to sue a landlady for my damage deposis upon leaving her residence. In order to sue someone in Canada, I had to go to a Courtroom, pay $25.00, have the summons stamped by a Notery Public, and then mail out the letter to my former Landlady.
Although my case was through Small Claims Court and not having anything to do with owning a company making figures, I imagine that a Games Workshop C&D letter would be something more serious than a PDF file sent through someone’s Email, let alone a virused one.
What I am asking you, to clear up any further mis-understandings of what a Games Workshop Cease and Desist letter is suppose to look like, is if you could please send me a description of a legitimate C&D letter and a description of what the C&D policy actually is.
I am assuming that it would be mailed out, on legal paper with the propper GW banner, a description of why the product is being questioned, and a date and stamp from either a Notery Public or the GW Legal Department itself. Is this correct?
Please let me know as soon as possible.
Thank you for your time and consideration,
Trevor
Monster Hobbies.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
Woah! I just clicked “Send” and got this right away!
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Tarrakk Blackhand:
Sorry guys…last post on this from me…
Seems like all the legal stuff is here : http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=§ion=&pIndex=0&aId=3900002&start=1&multiPageMode=true
It could be true that Baggs is in the wrong…Could be not. Depends now on what you want to investigate. I’m not phoning England from Canada though! 
snowblizz:
Sorry guys..last post on this from me...To illuminate the issues, keep in mind what GW says is in many respects total BS. Much of that information is outright propaganda from GW claiming stuff they have no backing for.
Seems like all the legal stuff is here : http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=§ion=&pIndex=0&aId=3900002&start=1&multiPageMode=true
It could be true that Baggs is in the wrong...Could be not. Depends now on what you want to investigate. I'm not phoning England from Canada though! :D
Tarrakk Blackhand
As has been pointed out by (alleged) law experts, though their analysis of the Chapterhouse case and it's progress suggest they do know what they are on about.
Baggronor:
Its definitely the real GW. They sent the same doc by post and I’ve had correspondence with them. Xander eventually worked out the website hack was from some Russian address (iirc), and had nothing to do with the file.
Thanks for trying to clarify though 
frogbear:
I believe GW once claimed copywrite over the words Avatar and Lictor. Enough said.
Tarrakk Blackhand:
No problem Baggronor. I hope you are coming to some resolution with GW on this issue that doesn’t involve your company shutting down.
Yeah…the GW “legal” does seem to be a bit harsh. It’s like they’re saying "We’re trying to protect our IP (Which is understandable because of rip off resin recasters and such) to the point of making it illegal for someone to even think about using GW products. You can have fun with our stuff, even take pictures of the models…but you’d better give us IP credit 100% or you’re shut down."
Like my sister said, after I explained the situation…“It’s like Disney making a coloring book with Donald Duck in it…then issuing a C&D letter to you because you coloured Donald’s hat and sailor suit blue and white.”
snowblizz:
Like my sister said, after I explained the situation..."It's like Disney making a coloring book with Donald Duck in it...then issuing a C&D letter to you because you coloured Donald's hat and sailor suit blue and white."Funnily enough Disney is the other example where similar things often crop up.
Tarrakk Blackhand
Many years ago Disney tried to sue/shut down a Swedish comic book artist for his "Arne Anka" comic. Where an alcoholic duck character is rambling on about life's miseries. Disney didn't quite like that. Eventually the artist changed the style of the beak, the character in the strip went to a prop/joke-articles store, bought a new fake beak looking like the old one and wore a fake beak. The artist still has the receipt of the real thing he bought in case they start whining again. Or so he says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arne_Anka
Also this Finnish artist, Kaj Stenvall, http://www.kajstenvall.com/ has never *ever* heard of Donald Duck, honest!
He has also IIRC had various brushes with Disney...
Baggronor:
"It's like Disney making a coloring book with Donald Duck in it...then issuing a C&D letter to you because you coloured Donald's hat and sailor suit blue and white."Well, if GW had invented Dwarfs, that might be accurate.
But its more like Disney making Mickey Mouse then suing Brian Cosgrove for making Dangermouse, on the grounds that they are both cartoon mice.