Arlon:
i heard that cypher and lion el’johnson are one and the same
that the dark angels are actually chaos spy inside the imperium killing the "fallen’ or the actual dark angels
Narflung:
Nah, this certainly isn’t any form of official fluff, I don’t even think that was hinted at. Lion el’johnson was the Primarch, and founder of the Chapter. The Fallen come from a battle between Lion and his second in command which lead to a split in the chapter and the destruction of their home world
starscream:
i’ve heard the rumour that the “dark secret” is that the fallen were actually the loyalists and the dark angels are trying to kill them to hide their shame.
Cypher isnt Jonson. According to Decent of Angels “Cypher” is a title within the Dark Angels.
Cyphers actual intentions are one of the most puzzled over mysterys in 40k, I love the enigma but would dearly like GW to release more info (if they have even decided themselves).
Its a pity the DA fluff is so mixed up, are they native american in space or feudal knights?
Its also a shame they got lumbered with such a ridiculous joke name and Primarch.
Thommy H:
The problem is that there’s a bit of confusion about the difference between in-universe and out-of-universe knowledge, which makes a lot of 40K players and fans think that there’s some kind of deeper secret than the one presented in the official background: that fully half the Chapter turned to Chaos after the Horus Heresy. There isn’t, really; the “dark secret” is exactly what the Word of God fluff says it is, but obviously no one outside the Chapter knows it. It’s an in-universe secret, not a real-life secret.
The stuff about the Fallen being the real loyalists is from a Black Library novel, and it was one of the Fallen saying it. It was intended to cloud the issue, and contradicts ten thousand years of Dark Angel history. Even if the ones who survived the destruction of Caliban were the ones who turned to Chaos, their successors have spent ten millennia fighting for the Imperium, so it’s irrelevant.
Godbob and his jolly rogers:
tommy h is right as i have the codex here to prove it DA secert is that half there chapter turned on them but no other chapter knows this (the emperor does though) and cypher is said to have lion’el johnsons sword and that no one has never scene or heard him and lived some say that he may represent the fallen angels only chance of redemtion,and that his seemingly ramdom appearces hide a pattern which reveals that he is slowly moving across the galaxy towards terra and the emperor himself and don’t say i’m liying because i copy it out of the codex it self.
p.s did someone already make a thread about this 'cos i sent a post and the thread disaperrerd odd
Sigose:
True, but Cypher was killed in a book about five years ago by a chaos champion of khorne. He was over whelmed from what my friend explained to me reading me the book over via Skype one night. Was a really good tale. Cause Cypher is discontenued model ‘AGAIN’ from what I am aware on the matter. So I believe they killed him off due to they got tired of fan people making it deeper and darker then what is was for him.
I will try and contact my friend on what book it was again so you all can read about it.
but yes there ‘Dark Secret’ is just half the chapter going traitor is all. And sense they are overly religious they are hunting down there fallen brothers to slay them all down to become redeemed or something. Really simple is all.
-Sigose
Thommy H:
So I believe they killed him off due to they got tired of fan people making it deeper and darker then what is was for him.The Dark Angels Codex seems to indicate he's alive. GW usually don't definitively kill off any of their special characters since they've moved away from telling a continuous story and instead establishing a static setting.
Plus Cypher always survives - he disappeared from a locked room, and even a C'Tan couldn't finish him off. He's protected by some sort of patron Chaos entity...or perhaps another force of some kind...
Godbob and his jolly rogers:
yes i’m sorry but i’ll have to go on tommy h side as cypher always gets away but if that book was righten before 2006 it’s wrong sorry
Thommy H:
Certainly if he was killed off, it would be more spectacular than some random Khorne Champion chopping him up. He stood up to Abbadon and, as I said, survived an encounter with a C’Tan. If Cypher ever goes, it will be while doing something setting-shattering.
Narflung:
The native american indian thing was in tribute to a squad of terminators that sacrificed themselves against some genestealers. They were recruited from a world that was inhabited by native american types.
Thommy H:
The native american indian thing was in tribute to a squad of terminators that sacrificed themselves against some genestealers. They were recruited from a world that was inhabited by native american types.Yep. Dark Angels recruit from lots of different worlds, because they travel around in an asteroid instead of having a specific homeworld. When that story ("Deathwing") was written though, that hadn't yet been established, so the plains indian world was intended to be where all the Dark Angels came from. Since then, it's been retconned.
Narflung
The significance of it is that, normally, the Dark Angels forget their previous lives when they become Space Marines, casting aside their old traditions and even their names (replacing them with names from old Caliban - usually Jewish/Biblical names like Samael and Molokai). The only exception to this rule is now in the Deathwing, where they've incorporated the traditions from the plains indian world (feathers, armour painted in the traditional colour of death and mourning) in order to honour the sacrifice of their ancestors.
Narflung:
True true. I used to be a massive Dark Angels buff, I’ve been away from it for too long. Its a pity that they cut away most of the fluff from 3rd edition on, that used to be my favourite part of the game
Thommy H:
Most of it’s back now. I actually worked it out around the time I got the latest Dark Angels Codex - compared to the Codex: Angels of Death, they got more background than they had in 2nd Edition in terms of sheer page count.
cornixt:
“Lion” El Jonson is just a pun on the poet Lionel Johnson, who wrote a poem called The Dark Angel, I think that in 1st edition 40K the primarch had a different name but I can’t remember what it was. I tried to research it on the late 90s internet but I couldn’t find any info anywhere. There’s probably a whole wikipedia article on it now.
Thommy H:
You pretty much covered it all there. Back in Rogue Trader days, there were a lot more in-jokes like that. It’s also become something of a running joke amongst the more knowledgeable 40K fans, because “The Dark Angel” is actually about illicit homosexual activity and Lionel Johnson was secretly gay (obviously, given the period in which it was written).
cornixt:
Had a look at lunchtime, and it seems that he was called Lyyn Elgonson or something similar, presumably pronounced roughly the same. Makes me want to do a pre-Heresy Dark Angels army in black, if only I could get the older armour styles.
Lord Zarkov:
Forgeworld make MkIV if you want that; The Iron Warrior models (if you can still get them) also had MkIII