Later I sold this army, bearing in mind an idea of making my own chaos dwarves. I even invented a special oriental theme for them, but then I switched to my another beloved army- beastmen, and played it for a long time.
Since I’m a sporty player (though beastmen aren’t really tough army, but I managed to achieve really solid results) I never turned back on chaos dwarves, untill this year, when they started to appear in ETC discussions. THEY MAY BE ALLOWED with theit new Tamurkhan army list!
That’s great, since they seem to have lots of potential. So now I’m going to make 3-4-5 different CD models greens, and duplicate them in numbers to make an army. Now the questions arise
1. What kind of core is the best? CD’s or hobgobs? If CD’s than which weapon is the most universal tourney-wise and most cost-effective? I guess fireglaives are overpriced, probably GW or shield HW are good?
2. Are bullcentaurs good? As far as I remember, they cost as much as chaos knight, they are almost as tough, but have 3 wounds each. IS it correct? What is the best weaponry for them?
And yeh, my CD won’t be oriental. They’re going to be classic, with hats, since FWorld guys have masks, I feel that someone should go on making tower-hated stunties =)
Hey Schlanger. I may not be in the best position to give you tips on units, as I have never played with the LoA list - mostly because it seems very limited in viable army builds and because most LoA armies tend to have very few units to move around the battlefield. I’ll give your questions a shot though
1. People tend to only take CD’s as their core units. The weapon upgrades are by many considered to be over-priced, which would make HW/Shield the “best” option. Of course point-efficiency isn’t the answer to everything: if you want a shooty unit, you’re gonna have to buy shooty weapons Still, it seems to be better to spend those points on Warmachines instead and let them provide the ranged attacks.
Hobgoblins don’t appear in many lists, but I personally feel that cheap sacrificial units can be very useful no matter what army you play with.
2. Bull Centaurs are O.K. Not superb, and not bad either. The comparison to Chaos Knights is actually a pretty nice one. The main difference is that they use a bigger base (50x50 or 40x40; it’s still not set in stone, but 50x50 seems to be mentioned most often). For a 3-wound monstrous beast, their damage-output is fairly limited however. Compared to Chaos Knights they lose 1 WS, 1 Str (and the attack from the Chaos Steed!), but gain Stomp and have a bigger frontage. I’d suggest running them in units of 3-4, deployed 2 models wide. This should make them pretty flexible allowing you to use them where you need them the most. They can add some punch to a combat, can deal with chaff, hunt warmachines or even hold up an enemy unit for a turn or two with a bit of luck.
As for their equipment, all options are (again) pretty expensive. GW is nice because you’ll probably strike last anyways, while a Shield would make them very durable vs. low-strenght troops with T5 and 2+ armour.
Finally, K’daai Fireborn more or less compete with the Bull Centaurs and can perform in a similar way. But there are some differences to consider which can make either unit perform slightly better or worse under different circumstances.
I’ve taken a quick peek at your blog and your sculpting skills seem to be pretty damn good. I’m curious to see what you’ll manage to make out of the CD’s
For core, I run a unit of 24 fireglaives. Expensive? yes… but the strength 5 attack in CC is quite nice. I played a storm of magic battle last weekend, and those guys were able to get scratchmarks on a Carmine emperor dragon… also, the fact that you can stand and shoot at strength 4, then whack 'em around the head at strength 5 is quite a good combo imo. I also run 2 units of 20 hobbos for support. Especially the K’daai destroyer has need of those guys if you’re charging him in a horde’s front. Equip them with 2 handweapons for extra attacks.
I ran some bull centaurs as well, and due to some mispositioning on my part, they only saw one round of combat, but I can’t say I was impressed… their damage output is quite low considering what they cost. When looking at other special units, I wouldn’t field regular k’daai, since they burn up quite fast. I tend to field a unit of 27 ironsworn, backed up with the BSB. Place them 7x4, and they’ll generate 15 S5 magical attacks that’ll hit on 3’s most of the time. And as a plus, they have all the perks of he regular warriors (AS and such…) These guys are the perfect building block for your army (or at least they are for mine). They have yet to let me down…
And don’t forget, at least 2 shriekers and 1 magma cannon!!!
Infernal Guard with HW and Shield. Big block, maybe Razor Standard if you have the points, generally horde formation to maximise their rather average damage output. I wouldn’t touch any of the missile weapon upgrades with a bargepole, waaaay too many points. If you want to shoot stuff, get some artillery.
Hobgoblins are generally overpriced, in a competitive environment (whatever that is ;P) I would use archers but not ranked units.
2. BCs are tough and fast. They can grind well and can’t be stomped, so they deal with monsters ably. Small units of them can be good for hunting war machines, while big units with a Taur’uk hold their points well and are pretty hard.
Fireborn are much better at doing damage, but are best suited to killing T3 infantry. A lot of people worry about the T tests, but I found them to be very, very good, they were my favourite unit at the Winter Incursion Tournament last year (finished 4th).
Just take them in units of 6+. They love elves
Overall, all the characters are very good, HW + Shield IG and Hobgoblin archers are ok, the artillery is all good, Fireborn and BCS are nice, the Destroyer is epic and the rest is crazy overpriced. Iron Daemons can work if you take several of them, but it gets pretty extreme.
I also run 2 units of 20 hobbos for support. Especially the K’daai destroyer has need of those guys if you’re charging him in a horde’s front. Equip them with 2 handweapons for extra attacks.
Surely this is counterproductive? On its own, the Destroyer will crush pretty much anything, all the hobgoblins will do is add ranks (good) and then get killed (bad, as it means the Destroyer risks crumbling due to being unstable). They’ll do more harm than good. I haven’t found the Destroyer needs anyone’s help, mine went through 30 Swordmasters and 30 White Lions in one game, he is virtually unkillable to most troops (and literally unkillable to some).
I see your point , though I’ve never have had to complain about the destroyer’s damage output… the hobbos have never made me loose a combat, but their banner and ranks have made me crush my enemies even more painfully…
I’ll try the fireborn in a bigger unit… last time they went out as fast as a candle in stormy weather…
Still, my vote of confidence remains with my faithfull ironsworn
I'll try the fireborn in a bigger unit... last time they went out as fast as a candle in stormy weather...
In big units, they are very, very good against 20mm infantry. The automatic hits are horrendous against Elves, humans and undead. And Fireborn vs Trolls needs to be censored... ;)
One day I'm going to run an 18-strong Fireborn horde. Its going to smart.
I’m going to run a 3000pts army soon in a big alliance battle (at least 4 players per side). I’ll give the small K’daai a spin instead of a second big one, and see how they perform in a bigger unit.
Is there such a thing as a deadly CD list? I know the destroyer and magma cannon are excellent, but our core is overpriced to make up for it.
I took the following to a local tourney last month and achieved mid-table mediocrity (I could have done better if I’d played better, I the actual army list is ok):
Sorcerer Prophet on Lore of Hashut with Crown of Command, Earthing Rod, Talisman of Endurance and Enchanted Shield
BSB with Dragonhelm and Dawnstone
Lv2 on Metal with Dispel Scroll and Charmed Shield
30 IG full Command
24 IG Full Command
6 Fireborn
2 Deathshriekers
Magma Cannon
Destroyer
Its not subtle
The Prophet spends the early game casting Flames of Azgorh and scaring the sh*t out of the opponent, hopefully drawing out the inevitable Dispel Scroll, then switches to Breath of Hatred when the combats begin - with re-rolls that horde of 30 actually become scary.
The unit of 24 is the support/bunker for the Prophet. Crown of Command means both blocks are tough to shift.
The Artillery deploys behind the blocks and fires away, the LV2 granting them his re-roll. He also has the task of casting Searing Doom on any knights/Mournfangs that show up, otherwise he hopes for Glittering Robe/Enchanted Blades. The Charmed Shield is more to stop that first str10 hit when he miscasts Searing Doom than enemy shooting
The Destroyer is the main threat tool, forcing the enemy to react to it, while the Fireborn basically fill in whatever gap is left and look for opportunities to make a nuisance of themselves.
Still, it seems to be better to spend those points on Warmachines instead and let them provide the ranged attacks.