nicque-ta-mare:
Method’s Brawler bash list
http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=13075&pid=217453#pid217453
has got me thinking about THE demon prince (1+ armour, 5+ ward, 2+ ward vs flaming, flying, soulfeeder, +1 to Hit sword, charmed shield, mark of nurgle). Lets say he is also running death magic (more effective than nurgle for this build). Lets say he also is running 2 Chimera. (Look up The Sustainable Centre, or either OnceBitten or MrMalorian on youtube. Its a recent battle report). I am going to give my take on how to deal with him, but I am sure there are others on this site who can give a better version… so please do
Outside of magic the only things in the LoA list that can hurt him are the Iron Demon, Hellcannon and Dreadquake Mortar. Blunderbuss/bows need 100+ shots to do one wound, fireglaives just under 30. Deathshrieker is flaming. With the re-rell the Mortar or Hellcannon will hit ~50% of the time. With d6 wounds and the ward save thats a 17% kill rate. With 2 shots this increases to above 40%. 2 Hellcannons, daemonsmith, 2 rounds of shooting. Decent chance.
An Iron Demon has an ok chance of taking out the dp ~50% with 2 turns of shooting. If chaos gets first turn the dp is out of range of the Iron Demon so you can only shoot him once he moves. You need to kill the Chimera(s) and other chaff so they won’t give cover against the Iron demon and you need to slow him down so you can shoot him again. Deathshriekers are good against chimera (flaming v regen) but again only ~50% will hit. It is pretty difficult to slow him down because he flies, isn’t afraid of anything in the LoA list and while in combat can’t be shot.
Skink:
Uh… I might be mistaken but the single shell (whatever the name) of the Deathshrieker isn’t flaming… Is it? I don’t have the book with me.
NoisyAssassin:
Skink is right, single shell on the Deathshrieker isn’t Flaming. Not so good against Chimera, but great news against the Prince.
nicque-ta-mare:
Skink is right, single shell on the Deathshrieker isn't Flaming. Not so good against Chimera, but great news against the Prince.
NoisyAssassin
You guys are right. The infernal incenderies rule, which contains the flaming rule is only for the deathshrieker rocket not the demolition. I read it 5 times because I know no one plays it that way and still didnt get it.... so yeah forget it
Honeym123:
I found that the k’daai destroyer took it out easy.
rubencm81:
I found that the k'daai destroyer took it out easy.
Honeym123
Really? Daemon Price has 2+ ward save vs Flamming. Destroyer will lose as the daemon attacks are magical and they do not re-roll to hit.
Bad idea to attack with a Destroyer
zhatan87:
I found that the k'daai destroyer took it out easy.
Never...
Most of DP have the dragonbane gem...
Persufflation:
I found that the k'daai destroyer took it out easy.
Never...
Most of DP have the dragonbane gem...
zhatan87
How about the iron daemon...or 2...if u get 2 shots through should take him out...also sniping magic to boot...it should at least scare the bejeezus out of your opponent which can be just as valuble as taking it out..
Geist:
I shall now revile one of my greatest tricks on how to bleed any unit that has a 1+ save and a 2++ vs flaming. It is beyond simple and it works so very well its terrifying.
1 Blunderbusses in large number for reroll to wound factor.
2 Khans on wolves to be placed so there is no room for a charge to land if flying or to block up traffic if not flying.
3 Lore of metal for 2 simple spells, plague of rust & transmutation of lead.
4 Combined for a -3 to save and rerolling wounds. Even if your rolling for 6’s there is not much that can hack a 30 or more hail of gun fire.
This trick does work and its very easy to put together. Try it before bashing, also if you get lucky you can make it -4 if you get an early turn 1 long range plague of rust off. It is not about tossing the #6 spells anymore (at least for me) its about making all the lil things work together in unison.
Grimbold Blackhammer:
Let Daemon Prince charge your unit. Then charge in with an Iron Daemon and he should statistically die. Charge in with a Skullcracker and he should more statistically die =)
nicque-ta-mare:
I shall now revile one of my greatest tricks on how to bleed any unit that has a 1+ save and a 2++ vs flaming. It is beyond simple and it works so very well its terrifying.
1 Blunderbusses in large number for reroll to wound factor.
2 Khans on wolves to be placed so there is no room for a charge to land if flying or to block up traffic if not flying.
3 Lore of metal for 2 simple spells, plague of rust & transmutation of lead.
4 Combined for a -3 to save and rerolling wounds. Even if your rolling for 6's there is not much that can hack a 30 or more hail of gun fire.
This trick does work and its very easy to put together. Try it before bashing, also if you get lucky you can make it -4 if you get an early turn 1 long range plague of rust off. It is not about tossing the #6 spells anymore (at least for me) its about making all the lil things work together in unison.
Geist
Isn't this using ~900 points to destroy ~400 points (I haven't done the actual math) and then relying on good winds of magic? I'll take 3 rocket launchers (~300 pts)
Geist:
Two spells that are low costing to cast, one of which once cast is a permant alteration to armour. Works on everything not just demon princes, but knights jugger cav, demi gryph cav. VS, a single slug that has to use a tiny marker to hit and if it drifts more than 2 inches will not hit. Or could blow up and your using at least 200 points already. 400pts is being used to cast spells but you sure as hell are going to cast something with your level 4. Not like he will sit there doing nothing and metal is not a waste of a lore at all for him. The other 600 some odd points of core might as well have blunderbusses, they are great against light armour troops so why not have them on hand?
Baggronor:
Deathshrieker + Hellcannon + 2 Daemonsmiths + ID.
Use Hobgobs/Wolf Khans with bows to shoot off the Charmed Shield.
Enchanted Blades of Aiban on the ID is v good for the +1 to hit bonus, other spells are fairly pointless against him unless its just to remove the Charmed Shield.
Basically you have a one turn window where he is within 24" and not in combat. If you kill him, you’re still in with a chance. If you don’t, you’ve probably lost the game. Depressingly, it really is that simple…
Let Daemon Prince charge your unit. Then charge in with an Iron Daemon and he should statistically die. Charge in with a Skullcracker and he should more statistically die =)
Or the WoC player ties up the ID with some knights/lone character on disc or steed/anything monstrous.
Thats what I’d do.
The real terror of the DP is the fact that he has a screaming horde of WoC right behind him. You end up firing everything at him while Juggernauts, Trolls and Chariots all arrive unscathed.
The unholy trinity of a DP, the 3+ ward re-rolling 1s BSB on Daemonic Steed (for T5 and 3 W) and Throgg is what worries my CDs…
nicque-ta-mare:
Two spells that are low costing to cast, one of which once cast is a permant alteration to armour. Works on everything not just demon princes, but knights jugger cav, demi gryph cav. VS, a single slug that has to use a tiny marker to hit and if it drifts more than 2 inches will not hit. Or could blow up and your using at least 200 points already. 400pts is being used to cast spells but you sure as hell are going to cast something with your level 4. Not like he will sit there doing nothing and metal is not a waste of a lore at all for him. The other 600 some odd points of core might as well have blunderbusses, they are great against light armour troops so why not have them on hand?
Geist
The thread is about the demon prince, or more generally something with 1+AS and 2++ ward vs flaming. Artillery and death wizards are cheaper, simpler, reliable. 3 DS RL, NO daemonsmith (only including when hits and not misfires are rolled) vs 22 blunderbusses w/ hexed DP (long range) both average about 2.5 wounds a turn. If I include rolls of 2 on artillery dice its 3.6 wounds. Every CD army has at least one DS so that 3.6 becomes 4.4. Also rocket launchers have a chance of getting two turns of shooting, blunderbusses only one. 300pts(500pts) for 6.6 wounds regardless of magic phase or 900pts for 2.5 wounds if the winds of magic are generous.
That what happens when the DP throws purple sun at your blunderbusses?
I didn't say "never use blunderbusses" just that the scenario being discussed in this thread is not an efficient way to use them. As Baggronor said there are other threats. Even vs monstrous cav I wouldn't. Average about 6.8 wounds. You are already casting magic with a metal wizard, they have no ward against fire, whats the average wounds for searing doom? (I am actually asking) I think it is at least 6 and at less than half the points cost.